Joy Fennell, Founder The Future in Black
Joy Fennell, Founder The Future in Black shares how she turned her 20+ year experience as an editorial makeup artist in New York City, into a new career and business as an AI designer after health issues. She also talks about creating equitable opportunities for Black creatives in technology. And, Joy shares how her immersive design studio is taking beauty and fashion brands into the future.
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This is a founder of a design brand from the Emerging Brand Incubator. She is someone who I genuinely admire. Also someone who I just saw speak on a brilliant panel in real life, not too long ago. 0:30 Joy, I'm so happy to have you on the show. Thank you so much for having me and I so appreciate you bringing me on, but also know like I so admire you as well and just really appreciate everything that you've done in my life. 0:47 So thank you. That means a lot and same to you. You are the founder of the Future in Black, which is is one of the coolest brands, strategies I've worked on. 1:01 And I just am obsessed with what you do and how you do it. And so if someone is listening to this and is new to your work and new to your world, can you give us a little bit of your backstory of you professionally and then how you founded your brand? 1:18 Because it's such a compelling story. And I think this will resonate with many people who are trying to figure out what that next step in their career looks like. 1:30 Sure. Well, first of all, how important is this market again? We have about 25 minutes. Okay, all right. I'll keep it short. 1:39 I'll keep it short. Well, so I am actually a former makeup artist, editorial fashion makeup artist. Is I had been delighted for about 20 flush years, but when I, but I didn't really get into fashion until I moved to New York, which was about 17 years ago. 1:57 And that's when I really started delving into fashion and editorial and beauty. And that was, you know, like that was my entry point. 2:09 Then what happened was of course, travel the world did a lot of things that I love doing had a great time and then as we all know 2020 happened with COVID and at that point though I can say honestly that I was kind of already thinking about what my next point you know like what my next pivot was going 2:32 to be what my next thing was going to be because at that point I was already 20 plus years in I was getting older I was kind of like what was what I'd be next where am I going to go? 2:43 And then COVID happened. And for me, that was kind of my out. Like, kind of like, okay, I think this is my point of exit. 2:53 And I can kind of use this as my thing. And so I was just like, okay, that sounds good. But part of it also to be totally honest is that I also started to have health problems. 3:07 While I want to say health issues, I, you know, I said try to get older and as a makeup artist a lot of people don't realize it's very, it's very hard on your body, especially if your freelance makeup artist, you have to carry your kid everywhere. 3:24 Especially if you're living in New York, you're walking up and down subway steps with a big kid, you're on your feet all day, you're running here, you're running there. 3:33 You don't know what it's gonna bring to you that day. And I got diagnosed with the autoimmune disorder called rheumatoid arthritis, not to, you know, like some meters ago. 3:44 And it started like really, like, just doing a number on my body. And so when COVID happened, I was like, kind of like, maybe this is my, I guess, you know, like maybe this is a sign that is time to shift, like totally shift. 4:03 And so what I did was during that time, while we were, you know, all in our homes, I wound up doing something called all Black Everything Summit, where I was able to gather tastemakers from like editorial makeup, photography, creative direction, black creatives all together in a summit and because I 4:30 was really really concerned about what COVID and everything was going to have on black creatives. I knew that we already didn't make up a big amount of people within the industry, so I was like, well, how is this going to affect us? 4:48 So I was like, you know what? I'm going to do a summit and it's going to be three days and I was like okay I'm gonna do it and I'm gonna do it in two weeks and it's gonna be yeah two weeks I didn't realize that yeah I planted in two weeks yes and I swear when I when I finally announced it I was kind 5:11 of like why did I open my big mouth like I should because it was a lot of work it was a lot of work however it was some of the most rewarding work I've ever had in my life And I wouldn't change it at all because, you know, the level I was able to secure people was just fascinating and it just woke up 5:30 something and me. And I was like, I think I finally found my passion even though I love makeup and I love doing makeup. 5:38 I realized that it wasn't necessarily my passion, you know, like creativity is my passion. And black creativity is my passion. 5:47 And how to, because I feel like it really does black people, what creativity in general to me allows for people to heal. 5:57 And I feel like our community can really heal from really like putting their head down and going into creating. And which we, which we're already so amazingly good at. 6:10 And so I just was like, okay, well, So this is what I want to nurture during this time and nurture amongst Black creators during this time, using their creativity to help heal during this time. 6:22 And also to do what everything wanted to do, from that I wanted to have in a second summit I had the first one in May and the second one in October and it was right after everything which was George Floyd and it was kind of like a kind of telling what was going on and and I wanted to get it sponsored 6:44 . And so ever since then, I've just kind of gone down this path and new things are emerging and coming out of that. 6:52 So yeah. That is incredible. I had no idea the first one was in two weeks and you said sponsors. I mean, you had major brands behind it. 7:01 Yeah, well, that was for the second one. The first one. But still, I mean, that's incredible. But the first one, which I was so excited about. 7:09 I was like, oh my gosh, it's my first sponsor ever. And who was that? I was a entertainment company called Pierre Atlas Entertainment. 7:19 And I was just like, oh my gosh, I was so excited for you. And you also had Visa, correct? Yeah, well, that was for the second one, yeah. 7:28 Yeah, still, but that's amazing. I mean, you'll have Visa as a sponsor for an event that you created during one of the most epic challenging times, especially for events to be able to create that from home and to find your passion and bring people together and do it with such intention and purpose and 7:51 land a huge spot. I mean, joy, that it's incredible. It really is. Yeah, I can't lie. It was really amazing, especially it's something about it when you when someone partners with you a big corporation or whoever because because they believe in what you're doing and they believe in your message. 8:10 It just really, it's a different feeling. It's like, wow, like you believe in me so much that you're willing to put money behind me on this. 8:22 So I just love the team of either. They were just great. So I really appreciated that. Love it. And then when did you start building the future in black? 8:32 Okay so once okay so once everything people started kind of going back to work and everything and I can't lie like during that time I had to still make money so I still had to kind of do makeup and everything but during that time I said to myself I don't want to just do a summer a yearly summit once 8:52 a year and ask it like where like right right now kind of awaken something else in me and I was like, what else can I do to make more of an impact all year round? 9:03 And so I was like, okay, I want to start something. I don't know what though, however, I did come up with the name of the future in black. 9:13 And I was like, yes, the future in black, like that's what it's gonna be called. With that though, I still didn't know how I wanted to position it. 9:22 And then that was where I was having a hard time because it's called the future in black. Like, what am I doing that's so different than what everyone else is doing? 9:32 How is it dealing with the future? Like, you know, because I know in the black community, we talk a lot about the past, we talk about the present, but I wasn't hearing a lot about the future at that time, which has now changed, which I'm happy about, but I was wondering like, what is it, what's different 9:50 ? What am I bringing to the table that's different? And so that's when I started kind of wondering to myself, And then one day, I was at a friend's house and I tried on the VR headset. 0:02 And when I tried on the VR headset, I was like, oh, what is this? I was like, and I fell in love. 0:10 I was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. And I was like, that's when it started, I started going on that path, trying to figure out what is this new thing that I started reading and all about the metaverse and Web 3. 0:28 And then I said, okay, that's when I started learning about augmented reality, AI. But at the moment, because I was a makeup artist, I really started resonating more augmented reality. 0:45 Because the filters, you look at Instagram, you look at beauty filters. And I was like, yeah, that's what I can do. 0:52 However, it was more of a learning curve. So for me, I was like, hmm, so I tried my hand on AI, got back some stuff and I was like, what is this? 1:02 Like, I don't like it at all. So I went back to AI, then one night I think I just sat there and I was like, you know, let me try this again and see what happens. 1:12 And I got back some things that I really, really liked. And then that's when it opened up. And I saw the opportunity because at first the reason why I kind of also stayed away from AI is because, you know, I was really fearful of it. 1:27 I was really starting out, you know, at that point I had heard a lot of the rumblings I had heard, oh, yeah, it's going to take our jobs. 1:34 And so I was like, you know what, you know, we got, we need to stay away from it. Like why are we bringing this out? 1:41 And then when I tried it, it's almost like something opened up, a box opened up. And I was like, instead of being fearful of But now I started seeing the opportunity in it. 1:54 And I started seeing how we can actually use this to unlock some things that are in the creative world. And I was like, OK, now I see how this could be a tool to liberation. 2:10 And I was like, wow, like, before I was so fruitful, and now I'm advocating for it. But the advocating became, we have to be involved in this process. 2:23 We can't put our head in the sand and think it's going to go away. At this point, we have to be involved in writing the future of it. 2:34 So that's where I saw the, I started seeing, okay, this is the future in black. Like I see this, like dealing with, you know, the future technology is where I wanted to go. 2:46 I'm nodding my head because I am so just in awe of how you've put all these pieces together and also too when you were in university, you studied black history, correct? 3:01 Yeah, I was African-American Studies major, yes. Which is really cool of then now how you've brought your education, your career, your passion with this future technology and how you've crafted a brand bringing in all of those aspects of yourself and also what you want to bring to the world. 3:24 Yeah, yeah, I was like, I finally felt like I finally found the missing piece in my life. Like, I was like, this is the missing piece. 3:33 Like, it's finally, like, it's finally like a, it was like a Rubik's cube. It finally solved itself. And I was like, okay, this is what I have to put in that. 3:44 Yes, I was like, I'm finally figured it out, yeah. I have goosebumps just you saying that because that's such a moment. 3:53 And especially I think for creatives, I feel like many of us have always had that feeling that they're always constantly trying to put that Rubik's cube together. 4:05 And I could just speak for myself. I've been on a many many lung paths in years of like okay How can I put this together and we have that moment when it finally clicks? 4:19 It's it's one of the best feelings in the world It really is and it takes time mine just clicked I would say even just recently in this past year and I'm 38 now and it was very much trial and error of finding that that river, right? 4:36 And so I think it's also helpful to say, like, may not click day one, but by you testing and experimenting and going back to things you were curious about and following what you were curious about, you were able to stumble upon it. 4:51 You probably if you tried, you probably wouldn't have put all those pieces together just because it wasn't even happening. Like the technology you're using now wasn't even out, you know, 20 years ago or to the degree that it is now. 5:04 So I really loved your story because by trial and error and experimenting and being creative you were able to really land on what you wanted to do in this next chapter. 5:14 Yeah. I think the thing is also like a lot of people, there are some people who figured out early in life and those people I feel like they're able to you know like they were passion much earlier so they're further along in their lives, career-wise and I was at my age at that time. 5:42 You know everyone gets to it when they get to it. You know I just don't happen to be like a little bit of a like bloomer and I'm okay with that like I like the fact that yeah I love the fact that you know that even though you know I may not be a 20 year old however I was able to to figure it out and 5:59 I'm now able to push it forward. Same, and I very much resonate with that. And I recently have come to a space where I'm like, okay, I am a leap loomer, and that's okay. 6:13 And I'm just reworking that story just on an interpersonal level, right? Because I think also as entrepreneurs or creatives, we had this idea of what it had to look like and when it needed to happen and when that timeline literally flies out the window, allowing yourself that time and space to say okay 6:31 that's not what happened but this is what's happening and let me reassess what I truly want and now your building that which I love. 6:39 So let me ask you this so going from a career in editorial makeup to now AI design AR 3D creating this design studio that builds immersive campaigns for beauty and fashion brands. 6:58 What for you is the main differentiator that you feel like you're doing within your space and your industry. That is still I think finding its way as far as what is it going to look like. 7:12 But what are some things that you're are doing differently within the AIAR space? Well, I think the thing is because I have the background and makeup and as for makeup in fashion, I'm able to look at things through a certain lens that I think some people are not able to write now. 7:32 And so for me, I feel like that is, that's my secret sauce. Is that I can look at, because I've always, even though, you know, like, Even throughout my makeup career, a lot of people used to compliment me on my eye and my design is static with a certain thing because they were like, wow, your eye is 7:54 really good. You could always be a creative director because I would look at the overall image. And that is what I feel is my thing in terms of, and so I had that human touch to it. 8:08 I'm able to look at someone who's actually been in the business and can actually create experiences through what I've known and what I've learned and I can add that to make it look more human, make it look more. 8:26 I guess empathetic, compassionate, romantic, those kind of words. And then also I think also because I am a black creative I'm able to also add that part to it because let's be real a lot of this technology is was not created with more voices involved and so I think that is one of my one of my main 8:53 goals is to definitely change that and add more more voices to what's going on right now. And so I think from that, I'm able to, one of the things for myself is that it becomes increasingly frustrating when black creatives are only higher during black history months, and especially at the last minute 9:18 during black history month and only higher to work on black history of campaigns. Where it's like we're, you know, we're so multi-layered where we should be able to, you know, work on any type of campaign and add our voices to anything. 9:36 It's not just the pigeon hold us into one type of thing, you know, like bring us on year round, you know, to work on, you know, because I worked in the fashion industry. 9:48 I know a goofy, ecstatic. I know, you know, so I know these things. So I'm like, you know, I can win my voice to anything, basically. 9:58 So I think that that's where I feel like what I do and what the future black does and how we differentiate ourselves from from others. 0:08 And when I heard you speak at New York now on an a brilliant panel talking about the intersection of AI in retail, something that you in particular are doing is bringing that human touch to AI and bringing the new ones and cultural references and it's static that it really makes your brand and your 0:32 artistry stand out. Thank you. You're welcome. You're welcome. As far as, say, from a brand's perspective because I know you and I have had many conversations about this because AI is still relatively new ish say from a brand utilizing it. 0:52 What are some deliverables that you are now being able to provide brands during a campaign? During the panel, I know that you spoke about creating mood boards for a beauty brand and how they were able to then use that to communicate better with clients and save time and money and how it was then used 1:15 for a campaign. Can you walk people through of the the more tangible aspects from say again for a brand utilizing this technology so that they could put the pieces together of like okay this is what I'm already doing but this is actually how AI could be implemented in what I'm doing, improve, save me 1:37 time, money, energy, and also just take me to that next future step of the brand. Can you walk us through a few of those things? 1:46 Yeah, definitely. So one of the things for sure is definitely is that these technologies can find a way to to to to help enhance what is already and done. 1:58 Like, I think one of the things that a lot of people think is that it's going to replace. I personally, the more I do it, the more I see that it's not necessarily going to replace, it's going to help enhance and it's going to help the brand communicate their message even more. 2:15 So some of the ways that they can do it is of course, like you mentioned in the Zulu Board, the story board. 2:20 You can also do AI campaigns. You can use things for social media. You can use for email marketing, retail experiences like immersive experiences and retail, you can have like it's such a number of things that you can do with it. 2:38 It's almost like whatever the sky is truly the limit, like you do not cap whatever you think of you can create it. 2:48 And I think that that is where that's what I love about it. And it also helps to democratize the industry as well because like say for instance, a smaller brand can now compete with a bigger brand and a lot of people don't think that that's possible and it's like no, this actually can help you get the 3:08 tools in your hand and where you can compete with another brand that has a $100,000 budget. You know now you're able to really compete on that same level and so that's where that's what I love about it. 3:23 That's such a great point as far as it could be used as a competitive advantage in the marketplace by utilizing these tools to put your brand out there and that it's not just for huge brands to use. 3:41 Emerging brands could use this too. Oh yeah definitely. I think one of the things that a lot of people. It's not even just, you know, like I know where I know we're talking about brands, but one of the reasons why we even brought up me and my health issues is that, you know, even with, you know, like 3:58 because of some of the health challenges that I've had, it started, you know, I started having a hard time with my hands. 4:07 And so now, you know, this technology allows me to to still be involved in that, involved in the creative process and being able to utilize and use this technology. 4:20 And so it gives access to people who don't have access to certain things and allows them to feel like they're, that they're a part of the process in the world, a part of something bigger. 4:33 Thank you for sharing that part of your story because I think that a lot of people don't put, those dots together, right, you were a makeup artist who used your hands to build a career and a life. 4:50 And then when you don't have the same mobility, you were able to self-learn, self-taught, a new technology to utilize your skills, launch a second career for yourself, and your own business. 5:06 Yes, exactly. Yeah. That's incredible. Yeah. Yeah. That's incredible that you were able to utilize this technology for this next new chapter when your first career just wasn't the same setup, right? 5:23 Yeah. And so now you're able to leverage that. And I think that's such a powerful testament of the powerful use of technology and the positive use of technology. 5:32 Yeah, we're the positive, yeah, positive. So let me ask you this. What else are you doing? And I know I just know behind the scenes some things that are brewing. 5:40 But I know that you just launched a partnership with Adobe Express, which is really cool. I know that you're working on some other things behind the scenes and some really exciting partnerships. 5:50 You had your first international partnership for what was it? Metaverse Beauty Week. Beauty Week. Yes, Metaverse Beauty Week. That was amazing. 6:00 Yeah. I mean, you already went international. So what other strategies have you been implementing or you're excited to implement as far as building the brand and getting more awareness around the future in black? 6:13 Well, I mean, part of it is just, you know, just going, I think the thing is like right now where I am in my life in my world is that just going after whoever I think of going after. 6:28 You know, like, I think a lot of the strategy, of course, is word mouth. However, you know, just having that that strategy behind it is it's it's a totally different ball game when you have a strategy behind it. 6:42 And that was something as a creative that I had that I'm still learning to this day because that's creative. Sometimes we can just, you know, like, I'm like, everything And you know, but, but if you put a strategy behind your goals, then that's different. 7:02 And that's where, you know, I was able to, you know, utilize and when I met you, I was like, okay, like I finally am finding out a way to do this and figuring it out. 7:15 And so, yeah, so, so, so, so I hope I answered your question. Yes. No, you totally did. And I would say one of the things that you in particular do really well is that you're consistently sharing your work. 7:29 You're consistently sharing new art. And that's something that I personally admire and a way that you've been able to grow a sizable following on social that you've been now able to leverage to build your business. 7:48 But you've been you're always consistent with sharing and I think that is such a powerful strategy And one that could often be overlooked when you are just being consistent and you're just like well This is what I do, but it really is such a powerful strategy of how you've been getting your artistry 8:07 and your aesthetic and your niche in And I'm sorry, AI out there is because you're sharing your art and then you have brands reaching out to you to say, Hey, how can we work with you? 8:23 And that is a really, really powerful strategy of building a brand. Yeah, it's really, you know, as creative, sometimes you don't want to share, sometimes you're like, you know, I don't know, you know, but some point you just got to do it. 8:41 You got to do it. You got to do it. Like, you got to, you know, how else are people going to find you, how else are people? 8:48 A lot of times people want to be involved in story, you know, and they want to somehow figure out like, how can they work with you because they want to be a part of your story and I understand it and I kept that and I'm just like, okay, I'm open to it. 9:03 It took me, it's still sometimes, I'm still, I'm not going to lie, sometimes I'm still, I still struggle with sharing, you know, because it's like, I don't want to bother people, but hey, you have business going on now, you got to get your name there. 9:19 And you, you're your, you, you are your best marketer. I believe in that. That was in percent. So let me ask you this. 9:28 If a brand is curious about utilizing AI and they are hearing, okay, this is something we really have to take serious. 9:38 We have to pay attention to this. What are some ways that a brand can work with the future in black? 9:44 Oh, yeah. So it's so many different ways like like I personally and I love that you know like utilizing the AI campaigns I also have an amazing person on that was brought on through through his sharing of his work that I love his name is Reggie Perry Jr. 0:03 And he does a lot of 3D animation and a lot of the sorry 3D animation and it's amazing and so I just like so brands have so many different ways that they can work with us. 0:16 But definitely, if you want to like a, you know, campaign, you need storyboards done, anything like that, like we're here for you. 0:24 For their next immersive brand campaign, you are the design studio. And also, I wanted to give a shout out to your black creative directory because that's also something you've built for the community. 0:39 And now you're able to hire and bring in more black creatives for these campaigns year round, right? Not just for a black history month. 0:50 This is all year round, 365 days, right? And so I think that's also something really impactful that you're doing is that you're able to get these incredible brands to come to the table and to work with you. 1:06 And then you're also bringing in black creatives for different projects to execute on that to also help build their portfolio, which is great. 1:16 And that is definitely something. And because during like 2020, like, that's when the black people started. And I'm not going to lie. 1:26 I cannot tell I like I dropped the ball on it at first because I was I was doing too much, you know. 1:33 And so now I'm able to really utilize and bring all those people that submitted themselves to the directory. And if you, you know, if more want to add themselves, please feel free. 1:45 But yeah, but now it's definitely a great tool to have. So that if I need to expand, or if I need to bring someone else in for a project, I can just look on the directory and see who does what. 2:00 And that's a great tool. I absolutely love that and how you are able to bring in community in a space like yours, which, you know, some could argue isn't very, could be very communal or, you know, it seems to have one type of person. 2:21 That's the decision maker, but how you are disrupting that and you are creating a true sense of community in this technology, I think is just the coolest. 2:33 I really is. I think about it all the time, like, joy. So good. So how can brands contact you, follow you, get in touch to discuss how they can work with the future in black for their next campaign? 2:49 Well, you could definitely follow the future in black on Instagram or on throughout all the channels. I am also very active on Instagram at Joy Fennell. 3:01 You can email us helloatthefutureimblack.com, check us out thefutureimblack.com. So yeah, it's so many different ways to get in contact with Kelly. 3:12 She'll be all right. I will connect you with Joy. I really love also when I am able to connect people with Joy and I always get feedback of like, oh my gosh, she is so cool. 3:25 I love her designs. I love what she's doing. I'm like, I know. I know. She's really, really good. You're welcome. 3:31 Well, thank you so much. You're so welcome, Joy. Is there one last piece of advice you would share with someone who is starting their own brand and they're in those beginning years or those beginning stages? 3:45 Any last bit of advice you would leave someone? Oh, yeah. I mean, That's a whole other thing I can write a whole book on. 3:54 I think the main thing is just make sure you're doing something that resonates with you. It feels natural, you know, because I think sometimes we all kind of, we can, well, let me just say me, I think people, well, I guess I'm saying people, we can get caught up and what we think is our path. 4:23 But sometimes it doesn't feel right. And so we refuse to let it go. And it's like, but if you sit back and you actually like, does this really make me happy? 4:36 Am I happy in this or am I holding on to this for an identity that I think the world has attached to me, you know, I think that that's really important. 4:47 Like fear that out and really do what resonates with you because once you figure it out and once you do something that resonates with you, then it feels natural. 4:57 Then it takes off because it's almost like a relationship. If you're in a bad relationship, but you refuse to let it go, you're always going to have bumps in the in the road. 5:08 You know, you're not, it's never gonna flow right. It's always gonna be some issues. It's always gonna be something, you know? 5:16 Well, once you get in flow with that right person, then you're like, wow, I didn't even know that it could be this easy. 5:25 So yeah. I love that analogy so much and that analogy honestly resonates very much with me because now I'm in the right relationship and I'm like, yeah, it starts flow. 5:36 Yeah, yeah, yeah, but like that creativity is like that It's like for years, I was a makeup artist and editorial makeup and it just was not Coming easy. 5:51 I was fighting up here. I was like, you know fighting up, you know, like to make my voice known and and I was just like Oh, wow, but now, I don't like, wow, like, this is, this is where I can, yeah, it's clicking. 6:10 Like, you literally launched and went international. I want to say within like a week, it was really incredible just from like the back end. 6:20 I was like, oh, shit, like, this is amazing. I feel like I'm pretty good at getting a sense of brands that I know, we're gonna catch on in yours. 6:30 I knew in my gut, but it even exceeded what I could have even imagined for you or like could have come up with for it. 6:38 Seriously, like I have goosebumps just saying that like you've really taken off and speaking on panels and being featured and media reaching out to you and partnerships. 6:50 I mean, from the jump, from literally day one. And I know it's not rainbows and butterflies every single day, but I just see you behind the scenes building and figuring it out and putting yourself out there and being super consistent. 7:06 And I just want to say I'm so damn proud of you. And grateful to be on this journey with you and seeing you, you know, do your thing and just impact so many people while you do. 7:19 And for everyone listening, go connect with Joy, follow the future in black. If you hear of a brand that's looking to get into AI, send them Joy's way because she is the real deal she's doing in such a human way and Joy, I'm just so grateful for you to be in my life in the incubator and on the podcast 7:41 . So thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you, Kelly. Thank you. I appreciate you so much. So thank you for Of course. Thank you everyone for listening. I hope that you got lots of notes. 7:56 I personally got lots of notes listening to joy today and I will see you on the next episode.
