Phoebe Sherman, Founder Girl Gang Craft
Girl Gang Craft is an amazing marker market in Salem, Mass and Oakland CA. Girl Gang Craft is run by Phoebe Sherman. She is the founder, podcast host, and coach and focuses on helping makers building their small businesses. I’m such a huge fan of Phoebe's work, watch her videos and listen to her podcast. I’m so excited to have her in this episode to talk about how she started and built Girl Gang Craft.
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Kelly: Hi everyone. It's Kelly and I have a new podcast interview. I am literally so excited because Phoebe Sherman, the founder of Girl Gang Craft, is on the show. I'm a huge fan of Phoebe. I follow her all the time, all of her videos. So thank you, Phoebe, for coming on. I really, really appreciate it.
Phoebe: Thank you so much for having me happy to be here.
Kelly: You're awesome. Cool. So I am really excited to have you on because the niche of creatives that I work with are the artists, are the makers, are the people who are really now building small businesses based off of their own creativity, which is an awesome journey to be on. But we know that there's a lot of things that you have to do when putting that out into the universe and actually making that sustainable. And I don't know if you know this about me, I used to curate maker markets in downtown Las Vegas. So Girl Grain Craft was always one of the markets that I looked up to, and I just loved how you were branding and how you were marketing.
So I saw it from that perspective and also how you are integrating so much for creative small business owners to have resources. And I'm just a huge fan. Okay. I'll stop talking. I'm gonna let you get into it. But how did this all start? When did, how did this idea, how did it start coming together?
The Beginning of Girl Gang Craft
Phoebe: Yeah. So in 2016, during the election when Trump called Hillary, a nasty woman, I made this little uterus design and it was, uh, my background's in printmaking and I also studied feminist studies in college. So I made this like relief print, which is relief is like cutting into la uh, into wood or, uh, linoleum. So I made this, uh, uterus design and then I was like, okay, I'm gonna like screen print this, and I. shopping for vintage jackets and sewing the patches on. And fast forward to the women's march, I was screen printing it on signs. And then, anyways, we have a uterus pin today. We were always, um, pro-choice collecting money for abortion, uh, funds, advocacy and access. Um, and I was sort of, point with how to get my work out there. I was doing some CRA fairs, some like local markets in Oakland, in the Bay Area in California.
And finding some of these bigger crafters to be really expensive and also exclusive. I wasn't always getting in as a beginning artist and some of these crafters are like, you know, $800 for the weekend to participate in.
Kelly: Wow.
Phoebe: Which is a lot. It's a it's a lot now for me. And it was really a lot then as a beginning maker. So I was looking for alternatives and, you know, there were a few markets, but I was like, you know what, maybe I'll just try and host my own event. And so I gathered some of my maker friends that I had met in the crafter world and put together like a small market with 15 of us at my friend's cafe in Oakland. And I was like, I know, I want it to be like girl power. Come forward. And so, That was the first Girl Gang Craft. And I'm like, you know, did Instagram. And we did the whole thing and yeah. And we loved it. And so we did it again and again. And then we got bigger, and now we're here over in Massachusetts. So we skipped some stuff in the middle, but that, but that's the beginning.
Kelly: That is really cool. So it really came from you being a maker yourself, seeing that there was this gap being like, you know what I'm gonna do it with my friends and let's just test it. I think that's a huge part of it, of just testing it, putting it out there, seeing that it really resonated and then doing it again. So for you, cuz I think that's such a big part of the creative process, what was maybe that sign, because I know a lot of people are on that cusp of. I'm gonna really do this or like this is gonna be my thing. Like this feels like the thing that I'm meant to do. What was that for you with Girl Gang Craft?
What was the sign for you to create Girl Gang Craft?
Phoebe: Yeah. So I think starting something often is easy. And the follow through is the hard part. And that's, a generalization. Maybe it's different for you who are listening but I find as creatives, right, we get really excited about ideas. We have a million ideas. and like, sort of like shuffling through the ideas and finding one and moving forward with it that's the struggle. I found often. For me it was like, okay, we, we continued and then there was, you know, like ABC alcohol permits and like venue issues and we have to talk to the fire department and like there's all this stuff, and there's always pushback from all sorts of kinds of people. So staying in that lane that I think is, or at least for me, has been one of the challenging things. And I think it is creative. , that's the challenging thing. You maybe you get your craft together, you put up your Etsy, and then now what? Right. You know, like where are the sales? Maybe you get discouraged…and you know?
Kelly: No, I, I do.
Phoebe: I `actually later you have to, you have to keep going, so if you want to.
Kelly: Yeah, totally. And that brings me to my next question, because I always love interviewing people. Gone to the other side. I'm like, it's established. They're doing it, they're growing. What are some things that you found helpful that you would share with someone who's maybe a maker, an artist or a curator? Someone who is building that type of creative small business. Or maybe it could be applied to any creative small business actually. But what were some things that came up that really did help move the needle that you're like, Ooh, looking back on it now, cuz I'm sure there's a lot of things that felt like you had to take like 10 steps back in order to make one step forward. I used to, like I said, work in the event space and curate markets. There's so much. But what were some things that you're like, okay, this really did move the needle a little bit. Or maybe it was a one time thing or something you've consistently done. But I would love to hear what were some things that actually really helped move it forward?
Tips to help move the needle forward in having a successful market
Phoebe: Yeah, so something I've been hanging out with recently is I wanna acknowledge that my product-based business is not what is supporting me full-time. I work with a lot of creatives who are doing product-based business and it's hard. I'm not saying service-based business is necessarily easier, but for me, what made my business so successful was diversifying my revenue streams. Again, that might not work for everyone, but it's something I'm really sort of leaning into and teaching right now because we don't wanna put all our eggs in one basket. Eggs are expensive right now.
Kelly: They are expensive right now.
Phoebe: What has kept me afloat is having all these different revenue streams and sort of throwing spaghetti at the wall, seeing what works, and then like looking back and be like, okay, this thing was successful, this wasn't. Can we make this thing more successful? Or maybe it's not meant to be, let's move forward. But this thing I've always been someone who does a million things, so this sort of thing worked for me. But as we know, anything could happen. I was in the events business during the pandemic. Right. And I had started building out things online and that saved my business and has made us, more seen, more revenue, more supported, more supportive to the community. And it's kind of wild to look back at or even like last year, look at our revenue numbers, right? Like about 30% of our revenue was from partnership. A lot of small business owners, if they're not in the influencer niche or they're in the maker niche, they don't even think about trying to work with partners. But that can be really valuable for your business. And I think that could be an exponential sort of thing as you start to build up portfolios and build up your relationships with these big businesses. I'm going on tangent now.
Kelly: No, this is good. Cause this is, this is really helpful and these are the nuggets, uh, that people need to just hear a little bit more behind the scenes so they could wrap their mind around even being open to it. Because I'm sure we see similar things of a creative small business owner. They're like, oh, I'm not ready for that, or no one would wanna do that with me, or, I don't even think that's possible. So I like you saying this to just open up someone's mind that it could be possible and how to even start thinking about it and how to even start preparing for that. So let's kind of go a little bit more on that tangent, cuz I think that's a really solid thing. What were some things that you even found helpful for setting up those partnerships, like you said, for your own brand or someone else's brand too?
What was helpful when setting up partnerships?
Phoebe: So I think if we're talking about makers, right? There's a lot of partners that you can work with that makes sense for your audience, right? Maybe you're a potter and you team up with a glaze company. You know, maybe you do cricket stuff and you team up with cricket. Um, maybe you have like a mom community. for whatever your product is and something that's kind of different, but also works with the mom community. Thinking about who your audience is and what are they interested in, and then pitching those, uh, partners. We do have a class on this. We have available. We can just join. Right now it's $57. It's an hour and a half I believe, but it goes through all the steps of pitching partners and working with partners and there's tons of ways that you can work with partners. You can do content, you can do reels, whatever, TikTok, whatever. You could do an email blast, you could do a blog post. There's all these different sorts of things. And I guess for us specifically, I was working with partners sort of more on the influencer side when I was sort of dabbling in, uh, , like travel stuff and fashion stuff. And so I was doing just trades. Trades for product, for clothing, mostly for photo shoots. And so that's why I sort of got my feet wet with that. And then we started doing partnerships for events. That's a very tangible thing, right? People paying booth fees that are bigger booth fees than our makers to be involved in our event.
And then the pandemic happened and I was like, okay, we need to figure out how to do digital partnerships. So,we figured it out. We did some videos, and yeah, I mean, 30% of our revenue last year was partnerships.
Kelly: That is really incredible. And also on the, uh, note of diversifying your revenue streams. I love how your website is even laid out because there's, um, education that someone could buy, they could apply for the market. There's also merch, so you, I could visually see how you diversified it. And I think it also makes it more of an experience that you could experience Girl Gang Craft in different ways. And it's not just if you're either in Salem Market or Oakland, like you can work with girl gang cra craft, wherever. Right? Like there's different options and I really love, I really love that. And there is digital and also tangible and then experimental. So great job. I just, I love how you broke that all down.
Phoebe: Thank you. And it took a while, like we really had to spell it out for our audience, what on earth we did . Like it really took a while for everyone to be like, oh, you do like a million things know.
Kelly: Because that's the caveat of diversifying your revenue and doing multiple things right, is like how are you communicating? So I, speaking of that, cuz that was one of my questions I wanted to ask you cuz I really like how you niche down your brand and you have like this kind of magic angle to it. And like I listened to your podcast also and some of the people that you have in there, and I'm like, oh, this is cool. It's a little bit, it's different and you have your own unique spin on it. So how did that come together? Like finding your own way of describing it and who you do what, who, who you work with, and kind of like your own flavor if you will?
How did you put your own unique spin in the market space?
Phoebe: Yeah, I think the magic thing sort of happened very organically. I was a yoga teacher for seven years. So that is super integrated in who I am. There's a lot of words for magic, right? We can use mindfulness, we can use ritual, we can use like witchy community. And stuff really resonates with me and resonates with the people I've surrounded myself with. So it just sort of happened. I was sort of in a aligned with the Witches Confluence, which is a little witch conference in California. And I think that's just who we started to attract and who I was attracted to. I think it resonates for a bunch of people. I, maybe it doesn't resonate for other people, but those are the kind of people that we wanna work with. People who understand magic and mindfulness and are excited about ritual and then also wanna like to do the thing and like to learn the steps to do the thing. And I think that is a potent mixture.
Kelly: Oh, potent mixture. Perfect. And you moved to Salem, Massachusetts.
Phoebe: Yes.
Kelly: So like, I, I was like, okay, this is cool. Like you're really, that's a hub, I'm assuming for all of that.
Phoebe: Yeah.
Kelly: Cool. So what are you excited about for this upcoming year now that like the dust has kind of settled of like, okay, we're in a new year, all the new things, closing out stuff, starting new things. What do you have in mind for this year? I would love to hear.
Upcoming Plans
Phoebe: Yeah. So I feel like I was really burnt out. Mm-hmm. for quarter three and quarter four. There was just a lot of stuff going on, a lot of life stuff also, um, Moving death in the family. Just I had covid, we were sick, like just so much stuff. Um, that I took three weeks off and normally I'd be really sort of anxious and restless about three weeks and I was, I loved it.
Kelly: Good for you.
Phoebe: So I think that was really testament to how much I needed that. So moving forward into this year. Yeah, of course. We have a bunch of projects. Um, I'm also getting married in September.
Kelly: Congratulations!
Phoebe: Thankyou! So that is a project.
Kelly: Just a few things going on.
Phoebe: Yeah! But I'm really trying to cultivate more, my word for the year is spaciousness. So, really trying to cultivate spaciousness in my every day and in my workload and my projects. And you know, take care of myself. I'm really like, you know, I do have a dog, but we don't have kids and there's just, I'm like, this is all about me. Like we are taking care of myself. Like we are painting, we are going to dance class, we're going to yoga. We are like a full-time job taking care of myself. And I think that translates in the business. You know? Like, I remember going to the gyno, this was a few months ago, and I was feeling a little guilty cuz it was a Monday and had a bunch of things to do and I was like, no, no, no. I'm literally taking care of myself. Which takes care of my business. Right?
Kelly: Absolutely. I love that you touched upon that because I used to have that guilt also until I burnt like I couldn't do anything. And in 2020, that's when I was in that event space world and doing all of that, and then I was just burnt to a crisp. So then I started my business now and this time around I'm like, I'm going to take care of myself. I also moved like just kind of burnt it all down and started again because I'm like, no, like this is important. And I can't feel guilty for taking off a weekend because going from the event world, like taking off on a weekend, like what are you doing? Right? But I'm like, no, I could do that now. Right. And giving yourself permission. I was just talking about this yesterday, in my book club and I was like, the way that you wanna live your life is good to flush out and do that inner work so that you're building a business that also supports that. And it sounds like that's exactly what you're doing. The fact that you have a business that you're able to take three weeks off, that's a huge accomplishment that you are able to do that right and give yourself that rest. So just also shut off for like having that set up in that way, cuz that's not easy, but it's, it's a testament of you doing all the steps and all the work so that you could do that.
Phoebe: Yeah. And I just wanna, you know, mention that everyone has different levels of access and different levels of things on their plate. If you have a full-time job and then this is a side hustle and if you have kids or what, whatever's going on in your life, perhaps there's seasons of more work and less work. Right. But, t is imperative to find at least a little bit of time each day for yourself. Setting yourself up efficiently. So again, maybe you're preparing for future you. But if you're always preparing for the future you and you're not focusing on the current you, there's not a good future you.
Kelly: No, you're gonna hit a wall. So is there anything that you do that is something that is helping you feel that spaciousness?
What do you do to fill the spaciousness?
Phoebe: Yes. Lots of things. Well we've got help with some pharmaceuticals. We have, yes, we're on some meds. Exercise for me is really important. You know, taking my dog out, yoga movement, hiking, and just not overscheduling myself every day. I teach a class also about the to-do list being dead. Really thinking about what you actually can do in a day and generally, even subtracting something from that, like really being realistic with what you can actually do in a day. And then if you don't get it all done, be nice to yourself and move it to the next day. I also think it's really important to sort of understand how you're feeling each day. I call them high energy days versus low energy days. Yes. Um, and know that, you know, everyone has different percentages of those. I'm pretty up and down like. like this. Some people might have hang out in one longer or hang out on the other longer. Um, So like really riding that wave, if you're like super excited and energized, like take advantage of that. And then if you have a low energy day, looking at your calendar and seeing like, is there anything I have to do, doing that thing and if you, if you can, can take off time to, be with yourself or do something that fills you up a little bit more on those low energy days or just watch TV or whatever, do that.
Kelly: I love that you said that because I came to that realization even this past weekend, I was like, I really am either full throttle or I'm chilling. And it's cool. I'm like, okay, well then that means on the full throttle days, like I'm gonna really go for it. So then when I do take a day off or just relax and watch Netflix in bed, like I'm not gonna feel guilty about it.
Kelly: So I love that you talked about that.
Phoebe: that's the hard part though, to not feel guilty about it.
Kelly: No, it really genuinely is. That's the hard part of not feeling that guilt and then feeling that anxiousness about the next day when you wake up. So I think that's a really good practice to just put on people's radars to like make the most of it when you are feeling it. And so then that helps you chill out a little bit and now put that pressure on yourself. I love all of this and you mentioned a few different, um, Classes that you have available of just, and it sounds like you live it, you learn it, you test it, you refine it, and then you teach it. And that is just the coolest. And so what, um, maybe different classes that are coming up, um, I knowyou have a membership rolling out. What are some ways that people can. From you, from your best practices of what you are finding really helpful, the creatives that you work with that are finding really helpful. Where do people find all this? Cuz I'm sure they're like, Ooh, I need doo doo doo. Do do I want all the things? Like how can they find it?
How to work with Phoebe?
Phoebe: So you can follow us on Instagram at Girl Game Craft or me personally at Phoebe Sherman. P h o e b e, Sherman, S h e r m a n. And tons of free resources on the Instagram. And if you go to our page, our resources page, there's a lot of freebies where you can get guides into your inbox. So check that out. And then we have our membership, which our cart opens probably by the time the podcast is out, January 30. 30th to February 14th, so, okay, awesome. If you're interested in joining our membership, it's really cool. It's a community for creatives. We have all sorts of creatives in there, makers, you know, fine artists, witches, healers, fitness professionals, coaches, photographers, like really expensive, niches in there. And we do monthly classes. Either I teach a class or we get guest artists and just a fantastic guest artist. And then I teach classes. I'm teaching a multiple revenue stream class, and then I'm teaching, and this is the next six months I'm teaching, um, looking at the system, looking at how your business is upholding systems of harm. So I'm really excited about that. And then you can do that or you can do the add-on and, and or add-on. with some Reels help. So that is prompts and sounds sent to your inbox twice a month. So we really wanted to awesome support our community to give them ideas for the reels so you're not always scrolling and looking for it on your own and you have some direction. So that's our membership. We call, we call it the Click. And then you have a Facebook group to connect with other people. It's really fun watching everyone connect. A jewelry person will meet up with a photographer, like there's just like some matches and some magic that can happen in there. And then we have a Reels class. That is January 22nd and we're calling it a Quick and Dirty Reels class cuz we just wanna like get in and get out. Like you're coming in, we're learning some strategy, we're learning some tech, and we're just making it happen. So like by the time you're outta that, You've got it.
Kelly: You've got, and you're not overthinking it. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Cause we did doing it cause WHEELS
Phoebe:Yeah. Because we did it from of the Reels course last year. And I think people don't wanna spend six weeks learning reels. There’s all, there was the magic there and there's some community vibes there, but I think people really just wanna like, get in, get out. So that's what we're doing. And you can sign up for all those things on our page. You can go to girlgangcraft.com. I love it slash info, and that'll give you a lot of those links directly.
Kelly: Perfect. And I'll put them in the show notes as well so that everyone can find exactly where to join and find the class that works for them. And then you have Maker Markets in Salem and Oakland this year.
Phoebe: Yes, and those dates are announced for the whole year. So that's up on our site too. If you're in any of those places or near any of those places. Apps open February 27th, for the whole year. You can always apply later to the back half of the months, but we're trying something new where all the dates are out and you can apply for everything.
Kelly: I really like that. I was seeing it also from like a curator's point of view. I'm like, that's really smart. So people could just put it on their calendar now and like check that off their list. So I really liked how you did that. And I definitely want, cuz I'm in this, I'm in New York City so I'm like, I need to go to Salem. So thank you too, cuz I, I am putting those on my radar too, because I would love to go to one of your events. Yeah. It's a,
Phoebe: Yeah. It's a four hour train ride away. Easy. It's so easy. I love the train.
Kelly: I am all about riding on a train and going somewhere cool. So I'll definitely do that. It sounds awesome. Just thank you again, this was such a delight. And again, I love your podcast, I love your videos and I just love what you're building. Yeah. And appreciate your time.
Phoebe: Thank you so much. Oh yeah. And then we didn't say, listen to my podcast. Go podcast. There's 50 episodes. It's a good time.
Kelly: I send many of my clients different episodes to your podcast. It was one of my clients, we were messaging about one of your podcast episodes and I'm like, she's coming on my podcast. And I was like, I'm so excited to talk with her cuz I really admire you. And she was learning so much from your podcast episode. So thank you for all the resources you put out. I love sharing them and listening to them. And it's definitely one of the podcasts that I binge. So everyone, I'll put that link in there too. Definitely Binge Girl Gang Craft Podcast. And thank you again, Phoebe. This was awesome. Thank you
Phoebe: Thank you so much, Kelly. You're so welcome. Bye.
