Hannah Cole, Founder Sunlight Tax
Hannah Cole founder of Sunlight Tax, a company dedicated to helping creative professionals navigate the complexities of taxes and financial management, talks about her journey from being a professional artist to becoming an accountant and starting her business. Also sharing helpful advice for creative business owners on quarterly taxes!
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00:02 And welcome back everyone to a new podcast episode. I have a very special guest who I have literally been nerding out on all of her content workshops newsletter. 00:16 I signed it for a consultation for her to help me deep dive into my business like I am a big fan. 00:23 So, Hannah Cole is on from sunlight tax. Thank you so much for being a human and doing the work that you do because it's so important. 00:33 And I, I like I was just saying before we hit record. I really appreciate the work that you do. Oh, that makes me so happy to hear all of that. 00:42 Yes, it's true. It's genuinely true. So for anyone who's listening who's new to your orbit, I know that they're going to be so excited that they found you because one of the biggest things that I hear from founders that I work with creatives, emerging brands, maybe it's their first time building a business 01:03 . Or they've done it, but they want to do correctly this time around when it gets to taxes and I'm raising both my hands here too. 01:12 The panic, the anxiety, the what the hell am I doing just washes over us and then we don't know what to do and we start doing things and then it stresses us out and then we don't feel confident. 01:25 So can you give us a little background of how you went from artist to. Working in accounting and now helping creatives understand taxes like walk us through the origin story. 01:40 Sure, yeah. Well, I've been a professional artist I'm a painter. I've been a professional artist since 2005 that's when I graduated my MFA program and entered the world as a professional. 01:56 I'm still an artist I have a solo show in October like I'm working I was working on my paintings this morning. 02:01 I love that Hannah. Yeah, so I didn't like start this company and stop being an artist. I really was like I'm all in on being an artist and and so I really, I guess I just always want to speak to the community of creative people who have supported me for what has now been a long journey. 02:20 Because I think the magic of being a creative person is how generous creative people are with each other. This is not translate into the world of bankers and accountants and it's just such a cool community and what I see is that we have all these superpowers that we don't give ourselves credit for. 02:39 But we a lot of times lack some of the skills and tax who wants to spend their time reading the tax code. 02:48 I mean, right everyone wants to avoid that, but I feel like we at what I see is that creative people so often like blame themselves. 02:56 They think that they're broken because they don't know how to do this and I'm like, well, did your art school teach you this like you're not the. 03:04 I feel like there is a little responsibility, you know, I even wanted business school and we didn't learn this. Yeah. 03:12 That's fascinating. I mean, I know I'm not I'm supposed to tell you my origin story, but I just I want to just give like an all the way origin, which is there's no tax education in this country. 03:21 So all of us feel like we're behind and we're broken and we're confused, but right we allow these big tax companies to lobby the government to like hide the fact that 70% of US taxpayers are supposed to be able to file a tax return for free. 03:37 Like, did you know that that that's the law. Wow. You didn't have the show strong with a funny counting facts. 03:46 No, I do not know that. Oh, yeah, but because they've been literally suppressing Google results. I mean, anyway, it's that's a whole long that is a whole rabbit hole. 03:56 We could we could do a whole second show. Yeah, I want to count me in. I wanted to call all of that. 04:02 But anyway, the point is like you're not broken. You have tons of superpowers. And if you had a little bit more structure and skill around, you know, the hard and the scary stuff. 04:14 The world is just a better place when there's more creative work going on. You know, we're the empathy builders of our culture. 04:20 And so I just want creative people. Most who are my community to thrive like to do their amazing work. I never want to see another creative person quit because of money. 04:31 That's that's the why that's the why behind what I do. That's incredible why and I feel similar in the sense of I my heart really breaks when I see a creative who created a cool product and has a really great idea for a brand, but doesn't feel confident marketing themselves. 04:52 Because I don't know how to communicate and talk about themselves. And tell their story and I know how hurtful that could be just your own creative soul because you're like, this is good, but I just don't know how to say it. 05:21 You help and make that applicable for creatives mind like even the way that you one of your worksheets the way that it's laid out. 05:29 It's very visual and makes sense. Like you literally follow the lines across they're all different colors and I was like, thank you. 05:36 I needed a color chart. I needed a visual right because many of us are visual learners too. So I just like those small things that you've integrated into your brand and like, thank you. 05:50 Get it. Yeah, well, I mean, and that's because I didn't start as an accountant. I'm an artist. And I love that approach. 06:01 So when so what happened that you have your art career and then you now became an accountant, like what happened? 06:12 Sure. So when I graduated from my MFA program, taxes just like hit me like a shovel to the face. I just was like, oh my God, what? 06:24 Like, first of all, I had no preparation for the fact that I was going to have to do bookkeeping. I was not I was not aware. 06:32 I mean, you might think that's dumb, but I, oh, not at all. And then I was like, wait a minute, quarterly taxes. 06:40 What the hell are those? And I just like, like I have the journey that I now see other people have. 06:47 And I was like, wait, what? How am I supposed to do this? Not only that, I really wanted to be like financially responsible because I kind of, you know, as an artist, my income can be very irregular. 06:59 And so anytime I get, you know, I have some painting sales. I like want to squirrel it away. I'm like, okay, what's the best and smartest use of this chunk of money I have now. 07:08 I don't know when the next home will come. And to, you know, pay for a professional to do my tax return. 07:21 And I made what I, what I now know in retrospect is a big mistake. But thinking that paying for a tax return was going to get me like, you know, a lot of advice and guidance and explanation. 07:34 Oh, oh, no, oh, no, it does not. That's a really important differentiator to that I would love to get into once you share your story because that was something I really learned from you just even recently. 07:49 Yeah. So I'm writing this down, but yeah, keep going. Awesome. So I sat in that room and I thought, and I was paying what felt like a lot of money to me at that time. 08:00 And I thought I was going to get advice on opening retirement account. I thought I was going to get some like explanation of how I should organize my bookkeeping and like, you know, manage quarterly taxes because how am I supposed to know what those, how those work, right? 08:14 And what I got was like, this guy looks at my numbers and of course they don't look that great yet at that early stage in my career. 08:24 And I see that I'm being judged entirely based on my numbers, which which were pretty modest like very modest. And he's like, so when are you going to get a real job. 08:35 And I just, I was just like, I just flooded my body just flooded with shame. I like, I realized like, oh, oh my God, oh wait, but it just like I just realized it's not a safe space and it was not a believer I could ask any questions. 08:51 He was kind of trying to hurry me out. It was super clear that he was impatient with the fact that I didn't know the terms like, I didn't know the difference between a Roth and a traditional IRA, which too in a count. 09:04 That's a dumb question, but to any human being like, did you come out of the womb knowing the difference. Like, someone has to tell you at some point and I was at that point. 09:15 So it was so humiliating that I just, I came out in a fury like first I was sad and upset and felt shame and then it was mad. 09:25 The anger was part of the motivator for me starting this company. But the second, if you let me tell another story. 09:33 Please, I'm loving everything you're sharing and I'm like, bobbing my head around if anyone knows me. I'm like huh. I get it. 09:41 Yeah, so, so I actually had to stop in in the design and branding world on my way to starting sunlight tax actually staying. 09:50 Yeah, it was a project manager and then an account man, an account executive. I don't even know the terms at a design and branding at an interactive design agency in New York City and it was a wonderful place to work. 10:06 I loved it. I loved it so much. And I was there to try and glean what I could from the design world thinking maybe this will be my like day job and not my steady money. 10:18 So I was like constantly asking the designers like, okay, how do you do this? How do you work this? How do you learn this program like how do you get ideas? 10:26 What is UX design, UI design? It's totally new world to me, which I adored. And I kept hearing stories about how like project management was so hard because you have to deal with the creatives and I was like, what, what? 10:42 Like it's that it just I was like, that's not my experience because I am creative and everyone there knew it and I was like really into the people who are creative. 10:52 And so being the person who communicated about timeline and budget, it wasn't hard because I was like, they know how much I respect them. 11:02 Like they they knew we were we were a team, right? So I was like, oh, I think I have a little skill here. 11:09 And being like, this doesn't have to be the enemy. We don't have to fight over this like we all want the same. 11:16 We all want you to do your amazing work. We just have to do it within the parameters of this budget and this timeline. 11:23 So that was me kind of learning that, but then the other lesson I had at that agency was that the owner really didn't have like solid bookkeeping practices in place. 11:35 And he did unfortunately what what many people do running small businesses. He had no idea if he was actually making a profit. 11:44 And so he would and this is a real classic for design agencies is you get worried about money, but you don't actually know the answer. 11:53 And so you go out and you get more work, right? You get a bigger contract, you sign more work, but then you have to hire the people to do it, right? 12:01 So your expenses go up. So fundamentally you are not fixing the problem by doing that. You're just amplifying the problem. 12:09 So basically finally he got, you know, I put some pressure on him and he did it himself set up bookkeeping. 12:17 Had to sit down with an accountant as soon as that happened. He realized he was bleeding money and pretty much within the week every single one of us was called in and let go and the company folded. 12:29 So that was not expecting that plot twist. Wow. Yeah. So that was a real, that was another like sucker punch. 12:38 Basically I've been sucker punch by numbers throughout my career and that has made me realize, oh, this is you really have to know what's going on or your business can fold. 12:49 You know, I mean, it's bad news. So that's so much keep going Hannah. I, I'm so in this is also perfect timing of things I've been thinking about two of my, my path and like what I'm seeing too. 13:03 So what happened next I'm so intrigued. Well, I, well, I had a baby and I don't know if you heard but having a kids in New York City is a little bit of it because yeah, I've heard the rumors I myself have opted out of that, but I've heard the rumors. 13:23 Yeah, we pay more like childcare was more than a mortgage in New York. So basically that was just a crystallizing moment for me where the economics of my life just did not work anymore. 13:37 And so these labor intensive paintings that I made. Suddenly I had to pay someone 20 bucks an hour to be with my baby while I made them and that just the sort of meager living I was making that did not work. 13:51 So basically I was like, well, I think I know what the thing is I want to do. Like there's this idea for a company that I've kind of had like there's no good service out there for creative people to like the empathetic and safe and non judgmental and teach them about the things they need to know like 14:11 bookkeeping and taxes. Maybe I'm just going to start that company. So that's exactly what I did. I went back to school went down to school. 14:20 So you went back to school for accounting. I did. Yep. And then what did that look like rolling out the company and the branch. 14:29 Yeah. Well, that's I think it's probably I mean, just I worked. I because I had worked at that branding and design agency. 14:40 I had a sense for it, which I wouldn't have if I hadn't like such a important skill. Right. So I just I had a real sense. 14:52 I had been through the branding process with other companies like our agency doing network for clients. And so I had a sense of what what it took. 15:01 And I'm really pleased that it was like a holistic sense because I knew that a brand is not just your colors right your colors and want and logo. 15:11 I really wanted like a feeling like I wanted to feel warm feel transparent. I was gifted my name actually by my boss. 15:22 He was like, I think you should call yourself this and I was like, oh my God, that's the best name I've ever heard. 15:28 So I never was going to ask you where some like hacks came from. Very cool. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like it's I want to send him a bottle of champagne every year. 15:37 It's just it's I'm so happy about the name. So when did you officially launch sunlight tax. Officially in 2016. Oh, okay. 15:49 Cool. Yeah. And how have you seen I will have so many questions one. Well, before I get to the questions. 15:57 I just want to say the way that you have your from like a brand or myself, the way that you have like your opt in to your email sequence to another product that you can learn on how to implement and then your workshops in the master class that you have. 16:15 So well done. Thank you. You're welcome. I really I was nerding out on this. I'm like, oh my gosh, I want to book a consult and I want to tell her she did a great job of just the experience and helping someone feel like that deep exhale to take that next step because most likely when you're looking 16:36 for your type of service, you're feeling panic or anxiety and you're just feeling so overwhelmed in the way that you organized it felt very. 16:46 Calm and grounding and like, hey, it's cool. Look here. I got you. Here's a guide. This is your if felt very much like very personable, which is not an easy thing to do in an automated sequence and also you know through a website, but I thought you did a really great job. 17:03 And so I just wanted to say that because I even send it to a client and like she did a great job and also I know that you're stressing about taxes so contact. 17:12 That is oh my gosh, you totally just made my day Kelly. Thank you. Of course. Thank you. Thank you. It's those little things that I'm like, yes, like I just felt that comfort right off the bat. 17:25 Oh, that's so nice to you. Like there's a lot of iterations. A lot of accidental spam emails, you know, I mean, just like accidentally hitting send when I was learning how to do email automations just like, Oh, I just mail my whole list. 17:57 Like been there. Yeah, but no, I thought it was a really great experience just from a, you know, someone who's new and just wants to see how you could support. 18:11 I thought you did a great job. So you started. Thank you. 2016. Now we're 2023. Where have you seen the shift of, I mean, during the pandemic, I'm sure a lot more people, you know, we're starting businesses. 18:27 Like what have you seen like shift just from people what people are asking you or is it the same? I would love to hear like how people are also diversifying their careers of getting different money income streams, like the greater economy, just curious if you've seen anything from when you started. 18:47 Yeah, that's it. Wow, that's no one's ever asked me that, but that is a great question. COVID was its own bananas world so much happened. 18:59 Obviously all of the performing artists I serve were like devastated and not only were all their gigs canceled, but most of them were in the service industry as their stage up, which also got tanked, right? 19:12 So like that my client population, it's not all performing art like I serve basically the weirdos right like everybody that doesn't fit your dad's accountant. 19:27 Everybody was suffering. I mean, it was really rough. Although I will say actually interestingly and COVID muralists did fantastic. I just kept noticing that my muralist clients were getting tons of work and I think because everybody was indoors and a lot of places like we're trying to do outdoor things 19:50 . So if you could show a sign of life on the outside of a building, it was like everybody was like if they'd ever thought of doing a mural it was go time and so everything interesting. 20:01 Yeah, that was like a little trend I spotted. Yeah, the other stuff was just bananas. There were three new tax huge tax bills and PPP loans and right from the shuttered venue operators grant program which. 20:19 Oh my gosh just on and on there was so much for me to learn I had a serious doubt with burnout. 20:25 Sure, you did because there was so much happening so rapidly and especially for creatives in general at that time I was marketing director of a city block that was based off of curated experiences and small businesses. 20:41 And we were trying to like figure out how to adapt and like change it online but it was like it's a it's a location like there's only so much you could do and try to learn that on the fly and storytelling shift so. 20:56 And we actually invested in murals so it's really funny that he said that something like yeah we did do that. 21:03 So speaking of the business now and really that you've it sounds like you've always really niche down in creatives which is awesome. 21:12 What are you seeing now questions that people have for you or anything that you're like I want to make sure that this is getting out there. 21:21 Anything that you see is still kind of like a little funky. Yeah, a lot of people have turned what used to be a hobby into a real business okay that's a cool that's a cool thing to see. 21:40 I definitely get a lot of questions it's one of like I do these short one off consultations you're signed up for one we're going to have this show excited. 21:50 But one of my favorite things to talk about and one of the most frequent like you know I see the people preview the questions they have as they book and so I get a sense of like what what we're going to be talking about. 22:04 So much about just like the technical stuff like do I need an LLC my friend said I should have an escort but I don't know what that means you know those kinds of questions. 22:16 Those are really perennial I wouldn't call those trendy. But they what what I have found is that. They're really naughty like there are people there's a lot of like teasing out that you need to do you need to understand why you would want to get an LLC and if it's applicable to you because it's not 22:39 always. And why you would get an escort and and there's a real issue where like tax and accounting or sorry. 22:47 Like accounting and the law kind of sit side by side and the intersect a little bit. And I just recorded a podcast I have a podcast the sunlight podcast and I've sent it to clients. 22:59 Oh nice yeah I'm like listen to her podcast. I just I'm a little shy to say this out loud but I just recorded a total rant because. 23:11 I've seen lawyers step into the tax stuff and say incorrect things to people and it makes my head explode. I'm like you stick to the legal advice like stick to your zone because like you are talking about stuff and saying things that are absolutely wrong and it's so I find like sorting out those things 23:34 is really important. You I heard you speak on a panel and you spoke about LLC versus S Corp and in particular in New York City where I'm located and it was something that was on my mind. 23:48 And I was literally going to enter it into the chat to ask a question and someone had just asked it. 23:54 But I thought you articulated it so well and made it really much more applicable to see if it was a right move or not yet or doesn't need to be. 24:06 Because I think that what I see in my space is that a lot more information is being shared, which is awesome, but also a lot more information is being shared. 24:19 So it's a lot more to sift through and being like, but we I thought I was doing this right, but what about this and what about that and I see that a lot with people with marketing there like, but what about this trend or what should I be doing with content I'm like. 24:33 We're hold on. Like all of that could be true. I'm not saying one thing's right or wrong or you know is for you or not, but now it's like before I feel like in general is just getting information out, but now there's so much information and it's now just earning. 24:49 So what's applicable to you or not, and I thought you did a really great job breaking that down and it helped me personally understand that an escort isn't the right decision for me as of today and probably the year a year ahead and I just want to thank you because I was like now I get it. 25:06 Okay, I really hope you understand. I think like exactly like you said, it's that like fire hose of shared information that most good and bad like you you do not need to do what Tony Robbins is doing right now with his because he is running a much larger operation. 25:28 Right, you totally there and we and good for you, but we can we can hang on a second before we do all the Tony Robbins stuff you can start over here with the like just at the basic stuff. 25:43 And I and I appreciate that about you and if anyone's listening who's like we hold on, I don't even know what the difference is could you just give me like the really quick sound by of the two things of LLC and escort just for someone to understand and also hopefully. 26:00 But even had the playing field if they've heard those words and they're like I'm just I don't know exactly what it is yeah absolutely so. 26:30 And so it's really it's really important for it puts the function amount of LLC is to put a legal shield in between your business assets and your personal assets so that if somebody sues you. 26:42 Yes, they can come after your business assets like that's gonna you're not going to be able to stop that but. 26:48 They can't get your personal assets and most people's wealth is personal so your mortgage your car your kids college fund you know any your retirement. 26:57 All that stuff is shielded that's the role of an LLC so really the question you want to ask it should do I need an LLC is. 27:05 What are your odds of being sued. Because that's the point right it's about lawsuits so do I need to shield my personal assets as an art I will tell you this as some like tax I am an LLC like when you make sense or giving tax advice and etc. 27:22 Yeah, you want protection. As a painter I don't have an LLC and I never have and I probably never will because I don't I don't have open studio events so I don't even have the risk of people tripping and falling in my space. 27:35 When my work when people are seeing my work there in my gallery you know my gallery is hosting it and so the gallery. 27:41 They have insurance so like I don't really need an LLC personally as an artist please understand like your situation. Everything legal or tax advice on this podcast this is just education education. 27:53 You know you have to assess your own situation a lot of people I find just. Form an LLC because they heard it somewhere or a friend said so and they don't even understand what it means or what it does and. 28:08 Please don't do things in your business that you don't understand that that's not a good that's just not a good thing to do. 28:14 So the S Corp. This and and here's where the lawyers get confused you file an S Corp election with the IRS it is a tax thing. 28:24 It is not a legal thing and it is literally what we call a tax entity but not a legal entity so it has no legal protection and that you and I both witness somebody say something other than that on this. 28:37 Yes, we're on and I was like. Oh, I was like, oh, she's fired up. That was that makes me feel like. 28:49 Yeah. So but an S corporation is it's a tax entity you elect that status with the federal government with the IRS and PS and LLC. 28:59 You elect you form your LLC you register it at the state level. So you Kelly you would get a New York based LLC and you would register with a secretary of state of New York. 29:10 Right. Form an S Corp and I'm not advising that but if you did you file paperwork with the IRS that's federal. 29:18 Got it. Got it. But the S Corp really the role of it. It's like it gives you a certain kind of tax structure that is advantageous once you make a certain threshold of income or of profit. 29:33 And it's very, very important that you understand that because I see this all the time that people form an S Corp because their friends are doing it or somebody said it and they don't understand what it is. 29:46 And they're actually losing money by having one and giving themselves a second tax return to do an earlier tax deadline which is not a lot of fun. 29:56 And they're actually getting no benefit. They're actually spending money they don't need to spend to have that S Corp. And you broke that down because I literally was talking with a friend because she just had she just created her S Corp and she's like maybe you should do this. 30:09 And I was like I don't know. And then you broke it down. I was like, okay, that was a perfect timing. 30:15 That really broke it down. And it really is helpful just to have that very basic understanding so that you don't put that pressure and have that anxiety that you need to be doing all these things at once right out the gate. 30:30 Like there's things that maybe in the future makes sense, but you don't have to do them all this second and just really seeing what works for you. 30:38 One question, the biggest question that I wanted to ask you today and you touched upon it before and I wrote it down so I wouldn't forget. 30:45 It's now that you really have honed in on teaching people on how to do this. So you have a program you do consulting you have a great download. 30:55 You have great workshops. How does that work? So if someone I know many people who are listening they are founders of emerging brands. 31:06 They're maybe in those early-ish years where they're getting themselves sorted. Maybe they were a hobby business and now they're a real company. 31:14 Or they really just want to structure it so they feel confident in the growth. What do you really specialize in the education piece to help them get organized with their taxes and bookkeeping? 31:26 Oh, I love that. Well, kind of my flagship offering is a program called Money Boot Camp. And it's a self-study program like when you join it you get the whole thing right up front day one. 31:41 So you can go right to the part you want to. But basically it's kind of two parts. There's the sort of like set up part where you like set up set up bookkeeping that you know I have a little bit of special sauce and how I have people set up bookkeeping. 32:01 I do it with an orientation towards making your taxes easier because for most small businesses and this is really important. 32:07 Most small businesses need bookkeeping basically for tax reasons like that's the major impact. Whether it's paying your quarterly taxes knowing what you owe and tracking your deductions. 32:20 So kind of the big reasons that a small small business needs bookkeeping. Most people make this mistake of setting up bookkeeping that is super fancy super complicated double entry bookkeeping and that's fine. 32:33 But they have they don't understand it and it's just far more than they need and they find that it doesn't actually track to taxes and so they end up having to recalculate stuff every year because the bookkeeping isn't set up to make the tax part flow really easily. 32:48 So this is sort of because I am a tax specialist like my license I'm an enrolled agent I'm licensed by the IRS I am a tax person. 32:56 So I'm really oriented towards like this is really why you need this so let's focus on the thing that is driving you crazy and making you pull out your hair versus like you know, it counts receivable done those things are great. 33:11 But they're they're really built for like Coca Cola and huge public corporations like you just don't need all of that stuff. 33:20 So I guess I kind of like to orient towards like well where are you really at now and what's your five year horizon look like let's stay in that zone rather than you know do all the things because you get overwhelmed right. 33:33 And I like how you focus on organizing simply your bookkeeping understanding what you're going to need to file your taxes. 33:44 And then those damn quarterly taxes that can feel so overwhelming I mean that's why I booked it consult with you I'm like I need to better organize this because it gives me again so much anxiety. 33:56 Oh yeah yeah and it's different it's what you're doing with it really stood out to me it's it's not just like here's how to file your taxes because I feel like that's you know you could go to like you said your dad's accountant actually file your taxes but the space in the market that you saw that you 34:14 really have filled in is the education around that so when you go to that tax appointment or. However you submit your taxes you feel confident in what you're bringing to the table and that for me is like what you do yeah thank you for seeing that I really do think that that is kind of my best and highest 34:35 purpose is not really like there's tax software there's account tax prep is a commodity and you can really get it anywhere but knowing. 34:45 What the hell is going on in your taxes knowing how you could get a better results. Yeah, I'm doing what questions if you are working with an accountant knowing how to ask them questions so that you'll get answers where you. 34:58 You learn how to get the better result like how to you know be an accountant whisper so you can get them out of their little oh 1031 exchange like you got to get that they don't speak English to human being spirit. 35:14 Right, right, right, right, right. And you know when you go to a quote unquote normal accountant and you explain what you do a lot of blank stares so like wait hold on. 35:31 So you do contract work and then you had income over here and then you did consulting over here know like they look at you like you have 10 heads and you're like I don't know I don't know what to explain. 35:44 Yes, I always say just marketing I work in marketing because like trying to explain it and they they're just confused by me so much. 35:52 So the fact that you understand from like the creative side I think also is really huge so that creatives don't have to explain why it's maybe coming in from so many different channels or looks differently like that's already understood. 36:08 So the anxiety about explaining also what you're bringing to the table is diminished. And you're able to just like look at it and understand it and be like okay this is a better way of approaching it for you personally. 36:22 Yeah, and I mean let's talk about the safe space element like I felt shame and humiliation when I went to the first accountant I ever went to and I mean I will you know just to give you a window into my world Kelly when I am talking to people about their money it is the most intimate topic of all. 36:43 People would rather tell me about their sex life than talk about their money like this. Like it is I really take seriously like the honor and the privilege of getting to hear this like deepest and most vulnerable place that people go to and I can't imagine opening up like that around an accountant who's 37:08 like doesn't even get why you've got 61099 support me 25. But like I hear about you know economic abuse between partners I hear I hear women kind of I can tell when a woman is gearing up for a divorce I can like I get let in on things that are so intimate so vulnerable. 37:32 I hear I actually have heard a lot of wealthy women have come to get consults with me and I'm like listen I really don't specialize in like high income stuff you probably don't want to work with me and they say no I do because I'm being bullied I have an account and I have the best that money can buy 37:50 but I'm being bullied by him and I need you to explain it to me. Wow. Yeah, so I take that sort of all side of the work very very seriously and I think honestly. 38:03 I mean if if accountants out there wanted some branding tips I think if you took that seriously you'd get more business but anyway it's just like it's a real privilege should be in that space and I wouldn't open up like that to somebody who shaming me. 38:17 No, absolutely not. I know that so many people who are listening that are like okay I've been looking for you. 38:26 I'm so happy I found you you were the person missing link. So how can people work with you you know get into the loop of all the things that you offer like walk us through it. 38:40 Sure. Well if you want to get that sort of gentle intro that you are so nicely talking about Kelly. I have a visual guide to your tax deductions and so if you just want to download that. 38:53 First of all it's just an awesome resource I made it because rather than like ask an accountant a question about a deduction and then forget it 20 minutes later or five days later. 39:04 It's a one page thing you printed out you stick it by your desk and then it's like it's there for you it's just a reference guide right. 39:11 And it's rainbow colored. Which I really like. So you can get that at my website sunlight tax.com slash deductions guide. 39:23 And there's actually six versions you can pick the one that fits you the best. Yes I saw that I thought that was really cool. 39:30 Thanks. One day I will do something with that maybe do a special class just for designers or. But yeah it was cool how you broke it down per industry right it was. 39:43 Yeah the business creative business someone has I like that was something I did don't I was like this is cool. 39:51 Thanks you're welcome complicated on the back end I don't know I'm sure I really recommend it but on on the front end you can pick which guide is. 40:00 The best. And I also I have a podcast where you know I just I just explained stuff I talk about in fact my most popular episode Kelly is the one called do I need an LLC. 40:16 Yeah so obviously that one is getting a lot of traction is much is very I can see from the numbers that people need that one. 40:25 But I have lots of explainers and basically the inspiration for the episodes I mean I will never identify a client ever ever ever unless I have like explicit permissions of but you are hearing. 40:37 Real anonymized stories about people I'm interacting with and. You know so like I see a lot of confusion and so I'll usually make a pot once I see the same issue come up to three times I'm like okay this is a podcast right. 40:52 Like I was seeing all these people confuse itemized deductions with their business deductions in fact I even had a couple clients like throw out their business receipts because some accountant had said to them oh you don't itemize anymore. 41:06 And they thought that meant business deductions and so they stopped tracking the stuff in their business and I was like no. 41:14 Oh wow okay so I made an episode about that so if if you're hearing this and you're like wait what's the difference I have an episode for you. 41:23 Okay that's good to know. Yeah so that's the sunlight podcast and all of this is at my website sunlight tax.com. 41:31 But there's that you know at sunlight tax.com slash podcast we can find those all those. So that's my money course. 41:40 So and money boot camp so that's my that is my flagship program I only told you about part one the organizing part the part two is growing your F you money I don't know. 41:49 I'm allowed to say that. Yeah you could say whatever you want yeah growing your f*** you money. That's what we want. 41:55 That's what we want. That's what we want. So like creative people we have an authentic thing we want to show the world. 42:10 But there's something in the way for you you're teaching people how to talk about it in a way that feels true to what they're doing right for me I'm trying to teach people like money's not the bad guy in fact. 42:22 Right in accelerant for this amazing work that you're doing so let's do that part of it. Let's make sure you have it. 42:29 Love it. Because there's so much to that I think creatives and just people right now growing up that money was bad or money was evil or you know was told all these weird stories around money so I love how you're changing that narrative to have a different way of looking at it. 42:50 To make it be like okay I am going to empower myself with this information like this is really important. Totally totally and I feel like it's I mean I hope we've kind of touched on this but I think it's so important to. 43:03 Make sure people feel like you not just is this not bad but you deserve it you need to rest this is how you rest. 43:13 This is how you make your work impact more people like it's and I think people need to see themselves in the work so I like to show a lot of examples of. 43:23 Women and by-poc and queer people and just like like hey I know that like when you go to you know quote your dad's account you're seeing like the same white dude and khakis every time but actually. 43:36 Investing is for black women and like queer people and non binary people investing is for all of us. I love that so much as a queer person myself who. 43:48 You know I'm trying to figure out investing and like learning and educating myself in in a space that I haven't even I went to school for business and it's. 43:57 A lot of this was never on my radar. I really appreciate that because I think they're still such a gap. 44:04 So I love that you touch upon that. Yeah that gap is real. I mean economists have a word for it. 44:10 The wealth gap is really big between men and women between like. We're people the trans world gap is enormous actually really scarily enormous. 44:21 Yeah so it's important we need that f*** you money. And just imagine the world of more people like us with that. 44:30 Yeah. I think some really cool things will happen. Totally and I honestly money money says a lot like your your money actually does a lot in the world. 44:43 And I mean I teach about ethical investing which we now call ESG environmental social governance. It's a whole world where I mean it's not a perfect world. 44:54 There have been some problems in it so it's not a total panacea but like this is a whole other life that I have had. 45:01 I was an like kind of a money activist in college. I worked on getting the Yale corporation to divest of its tobacco holdings. 45:11 Wow. And we won by the way $20 million out of tobacco. But it took three years and a lot of work and it just a hell of a lot of boring meetings. 45:24 They tried to meeting us to death which is how the stuff goes. But that's where I learned that money really is power and that you can use your money to put power in the right place. 45:35 So I think you can correct wrongs with money in fact. Which is all the more reason why people who are ethical people who care about making the world a better place. 45:46 And people who represent the full spectrum of the world better need to have their money saying what their values are more. 45:55 Because if you're not in there, you know, who is representing what money is doing. You know, ravaging the planet. You know, there's a lot. 46:04 There's a lot. There's a lot I'd like to correct. I'm not going. A few things going on for sure. Well, thank you so much. 46:11 I really personally needed this conversation. And I know so many people who will be like, this was amazing. And I listened to it once a week as like a pep talk. 46:22 Much motivator. And I just really appreciate the work you do. I'm really excited for my consultation also to dive into my things to get myself better organized. 46:33 And just thank you so much for being you and sharing your stories so honestly and authentically and just vibe that you bring to accounting just makes me like excited about it. 46:44 So thank you. And everyone listening. Go follow Hannah at sunlight tax download. Check out the course. All the things she has to offer. 46:55 And just thank you again for being here. Thank you so much for having me. Kelly, it was so much fun to talk. 47:00 Yeah, you did it. Same. And I'll see everyone on the next episode.
