Robin Kramer, Founder Red Boot Consulting
Robin shares her journey from growing up in the retail industry to working with major brands like Williams Sonoma, and eventually launching her own consulting business to help emerging jewelry designers succeed in the wholesale market.
We dive into the power of networking, the importance of in-person interactions, and the value of building meaningful relationships with buyers. Robin emphasizes the significance of understanding your costs, knowing your worth, and confidently pitching your products to potential retail partners.
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I have a very special guest who I met on social and then we had a virtual coffee meet up and I left that meet up saying I have to have her on my podcast to officially record our conversation because it was that good. 00:25 So Robin Kramer of Red consulting welcome to the podcast. I think you so much. I'm so happy to be here and it was so much fun to talk with you. 00:36 So I really look forward to just chatting more. Same. Same. I was I left that conversation buzzing and I'm like, I can't wait to like officially record that. 00:47 So to jump things off and here a little bit more about you and why I've been so excited to have you on the podcast. 00:54 Could you share a little bit of your story behind the scenes of how you built your brand. I'd be happy to I actually grew up in retail. 01:05 My mom had a store. My uncle was in what they called the rag business, which was in the fashion industry. 01:13 And he had a showroom and worked with designers. So from a very early age, I was going into showrooms and kind of seeing all the magic happen. 01:25 And I actually studied retail management and marketing in college and also got a fashion merchandising degree. And just was fascinated by product and fascinated by the industry. 01:40 And then from there, I really, really, really wanted to work for a big brand. So off to San Francisco, I went from Boston. 01:50 I went to school in Boston. And I really wanted to work for Gap and managed to work for Gap for quite a few years. 02:00 I started off in stores because back way back when that's how they did it. And I was in stores for about three months and then went into one of their programs, which really taught me the discipline of the kind of corporate structure, which I really appreciated for, you know, future. 02:18 It just set me up for how to put systems and processes in place and that stuff. And from Gap, I went to William Stoma and from Williams, no, I went back to the gap in the old Navy division. 02:31 And then I decided to, in a roundabout way, I ended up working for one of my friends after I left the old Navy division of Gap. 02:41 And really fell in love with handmade products. She had a handmade line. It was beautiful baby books and wedding journals and things like that that were very high in we were, she was selling to Neiman Marcus and worked with the White House on a project. 02:58 And then worked with Ora. She was the journal that Oprah sold in her store when she had a store and when Oprah's so I got a really good taste for kind of all over the industry and growing up my mom, as I said, my mom had a store. 03:19 My one of my sisters also after college started a showroom. So she was, this is really in your DNA. And then one of my younger sisters actually open to children's clothing store. 03:34 So when I saw all the hard work of a store, I was like, no way. Am I. Although I have total in my heart of hearts, I will open a store one day because I just love product. 03:49 I just, I love the interaction with people, but that's a, that's a whole other podcast. Well, do part two. I love it. 03:59 So I ended up in handmade product. I was working for one of my best friends. I loved it. And I just love sharing what I knew because with my corporate jobs, I had open new stores. 04:15 I did all the openings, closings, remodels and relocations for William snow, a pottery barn and hold everything stores. So I really kind of knew those nuances. 04:24 I also started their customer relations department. And then I started the customer relations department for old Navy. So the customer has always been a huge focus for me in my career. 04:37 And I took that to heart when I went to work for the smaller brands as well. And from Molly West Handbound books, where I was, I ended up just connecting, doing some consulting for some brands while I was working for Molly, like I would do that on the weekends. 04:58 And one of the consulting jobs I had approached, one of the, the operations director for a jewelry line, she went to go work for a company called Doggared jewelry. 05:11 And she was overseeing the operations and production. And she reached out to me and said, Hey, I don't know if, you know, in quotes, you would be interested or if you knew somebody who would be interested to be the director of sales for Doggared. 05:27 And I had just discovered Doggared out that time. And, and thought it was brilliant. So I'm actually wearing one of the dog year necklaces. 05:36 It's a little cowboy boot. And it's cute. And Doggared was known for, they had done one necklace and it was a make a wish necklace. 05:47 So the whole idea was that you put a wish and when the necklace wears off, which it's meant to do, your wish comes true. 05:57 And I thought it was brilliant. I was like, oh my gosh, no one's going to return it. They want to break, you know, all these things. 06:05 So I immediately picked up the phone and I called this woman and I said, I am interested. I would love to talk with them. 06:12 And at the time I was living in the Bay Area, and they were based in Los Angeles, well in the Venice Beach area of LA. 06:21 So fast forward, I ended up working for them and I worked for them for five years. And when I went to work for them, they were a 14 year old company and they grew 800% in the five years I was there. 06:35 Wow. It was bananas. It was, and what I like to say is it was the perfect storm. So my friend, into who oversaw the production and operations. 06:47 And I worked really well together. And you have to, you have to have production and sales work together because if they don't, if you're just going to miss the mark, it just not, it's, you can't grow without both working hand in hand. 07:04 So it was a wild ride and we made mistakes and we made a lot of things right. And I just wanted to share that with people. 07:15 I, we had, you know, before 2009, when everything kind of hit the fan in 2008, people were just shopping. I mean, the, we had lines at trade show booths and it was bananas and it was awesome. 07:33 And then come 2009 at trade shows, things that slowed down immensely. Doggards still did well and I attribute that to just really our customer outreach and really looking at how we could be in service to our customer base. 07:50 But it was tough. And I think a lot of people started coming around the dog, your booth, what are you doing? 07:56 How are you doing it? And when really the main reason I ended up leaving doggared in 2010 is because my dad wasn't doing well. 08:09 So I decided to take a step back and just get more flexibility in my schedule so I could travel back and forth to Texas. 08:17 And it was, I know regrets doing it because it really allowed me, it was my family. And like two days later, my dad was in the hospital and he was there for a month and I was able to stay because I had that flexibility. 08:39 So although it was hard to leave Doggards, I love the company. It was the right decision for me. Wow, Robin. 08:47 Hi, your story is incredible. And also the brands and the experience and how you're taking and have been taking those corporate experiences and also being behind the scenes of a brand that really, I mean, 800% in your time there. 09:04 And then teaching smaller brands how to apply those structures and systems and operations. Wow. Oh my gosh, it was, nothing brings me more joy than helping people on their path. 09:21 You know, and I have such a love for product going to trade. Sometimes people, you know, I've talked to, well, just to kind of give you a, a, bring you up to date is that in 2012, a good friend of mine who is a jewelry designer, Tracing Matthews approached me for an idea to do an online educational 09:41 platform for jewelry designers. And I thought I was brilliant because I was consulting, but it's really hard for smaller brands to afford a consultant. 09:52 And they're, they really need the help. So when Tracey came to me, it was like, oh my gosh, I love the idea of leveraging, you know, putting both our heart and soul into education and providing what we both know because she's coming from the designer side of things. 10:10 I'm coming from more of the, the sales and operations side of things. And how we could come together and provide information. 10:18 So in 2012, we launched Flourish and Thrive Academy and specific for jewelry designers. And we launched in July of 2012 and our first course launched in October of 2012. 10:34 I mean, it was in, and I remember thinking, oh my gosh, there are 50 people who signed up for that course, which at the time we were really shooting for a hundred, but we're like, oh my gosh, they're, that's a plus. 10:45 In 2012 also to give context, like that was still very, very new to take classes online. Oh my gosh, completely. 10:55 Yeah, it was, it was, and to start out of the gate with 50 people is a really cool origin story. 11:04 It was, it was great. And I have to say, I mean, I'm still in touch with the majority of the people that took that class. 11:10 I always like to say, I'm kind of like the mafia, which I don't think I won't let you forget. But it really showed us that people needed the help. 11:24 And there's, there were kind of classes and courses out there, but I think speaking present day language, yes, which a lot of it was kind of crafty and old school. 11:37 And, and no, no disrespect to old school, but I think you have to bring old and new together. And so it was great. 11:45 I mean, flourishing thrive was great. In 20 in the fall of 2017, I took a step back from flourishing thrive because my dad wasn't doing great. 11:56 And I really wanted to take the time to help more. And I moved back to Texas not fully, but mostly. 12:07 And then in 2018, because I have a passion for wholesale in the in June of 2018, I launched the Red Boot Intensive. 12:17 And I was still doing red boot consulting, but the intensive is really dedicated to a small group of designers who are ready to just work hard and seek growth. 12:31 They're ready to seek growth in their business. There you have to have a wholesale component in order to be in the intensive or at least the the readiness and desire to to do wholesale. 12:43 And it's join the team. And together we we help these this small group of designers, which is something that really struck me because I have an incubator myself. 13:02 And I feel like there's such a power in working with a small group of founders to really help them accelerate growth. 13:10 And I love your niche of working with it's mostly jewelry designers, right? Jewelry designers on that cusp of building their wholesale business. 13:23 And that's such a pivotal moment in a small business. And the fact that you walk them through that and sharing all your expertise. 13:32 When I was learning about you and when we talked last I was like that is really cool and so needed. 13:38 So where is the name Red Boot what was the connection there? I'm originally from Dallas Texas. Okay. And I'm I wear boots, cowboy boots all the time. 13:52 And people actually had a friend who used to call me Red Boots because I have red boots like that's what I wear. 13:59 And when I was trying to come up with a name from my company a friend of mine who was one of the founders of Vivian ingrid jewelry, we were walking on, I'll never forget this, we were walking on the street. 14:10 And I was like, I just for me, I didn't want it to be my name. And I think it's because I've had too many friends have the company be their name and then they sell it. 14:19 And then they don't have the rights to their name anymore. And I was like, I want something like what what can people recognize me by? 14:27 And she looked me up and down and she said, how about red boots? I was like, okay. And Red Boots was taken, but Red Boot wasn't. 14:37 So that's what happened. Wow. Okay. So from that moment of having the brand and starting to cultivate your group of consulting and also for wholesale, what are some things that you really found impactful to cultivate that business? 14:58 I saw how well, first of all, I think in today's world, you can't wait for things to happen. And it really is due to the internet, you know, back in the day, and I know some people listening here might not remember that there used to not be the internet. 15:20 But what happened, it just opened the floodgates to a lot more competition and used to be when you were working with storage, you really had to go to a straight show in order to get in front of buyers. 15:36 And people, you know, could figure it out. They had a little more time, they would meet mid buyers and have the luxury of being in front of them and having conversation. 15:48 Now, buyers can, they don't even have to go to a show to get product, they go on fair, you can contact them directly. 15:56 There's so many ways to learn about the stores and it's so many ways where the stores to find you. I mean, I can't tell you how many buyers are just going on Instagram looking for product. 16:08 So it really was a game changer and I felt like if you, you know, learn, let me help you because I'm here to answer any questions you may have, instead of you just learning the hard way. 16:24 Right. You know, until like oops, it happens and it makes me so happy when a designer, first of all, I think a lot of times people feel, oh, and also Etsy coming on to the, I want to mention that because Etsy is a cool platform, but it's also a lot of hobbyist and when you're business, when you're on 16:50 there for your livelihood versus someone on there for a hobby, when you're on there for a hobby, you're not charging appropriately to have a business. 16:58 You may be charging to pay you back for the materials that you bought, but there's time, there's so much more, there's time, there's time, there's materials, there's shipping costs. 17:10 I mean, there's so much more to it and it's really kind of cut into businesses and so really helping a designer talk, how you can talk to a buyer and feel comfortable and feel comfortable with what you're charging and all this, I can't even tell you how many designers are undercharging what they need 17:36 , they're marching. They're livable. Yeah, they just, they can't make a living and I even had a designer's I worked with who, and they came to me, their sales were insane, they were phenomenal, but they weren't profitable. 17:51 And it's because they weren't charging enough and what had happened is they had a rep group who approached them and wanted to buy from them or wanted to rep them and said, well, your products are too expensive. 18:06 If you do this price, we'll take you on and we'll sell your product and the, you know, the company didn't know any better and they said, okay, because we really want a rep group, but they never made any money and until they raised their prices. 18:23 So even though the rep group gave them this, you don't always have to say, yes, you can take people's suggestions and digest it a little bit and if it doesn't work for you, you have to make a living. 18:36 And so really taking in the really showing people that, you know, you get to make a decision, you get to have a say in your business, you get to negotiate. 18:49 And I think that's, you know, giving them a sounding board and some direction and where they don't feel like they have to say yes to everything that comes their way. 19:02 And, you know, I, I just, I'm nodding my head a lot while you're saying this because this is one of biggest things that I come across, especially for product based businesses, where they don't even maybe know their real cost of goods sold and then pricing and then doing wholesale versus retail, it creates 19:25 this overwhelm and also they don't have the confidence then to build wholesale because they're like, I don't know if I could even make money building out wholesale because the relatively smaller than say retail. 19:42 So what are some things that you would tell someone who, and I'm thinking of some brands that I've worked with who are curious about wholesale, who want to do it right, they want to have, you know, their things organized to make an easier yes for a buyer. 20:00 What are some things that are like really good top level that you're like, make sure you have your eye on this. 20:09 Well, I think knowing your costs, right, have a budget. I think that's also important. No, know your worth and value. 20:21 So if when you're know like know your process, know who your customer is, know what you can provide as a retail partner. 20:34 And I say retail partner, you know, when I was hired by dogyard and they called me the sales director, I really would have rather had like relationship builder because it really is about the relationship you have with the stores. 20:50 And I always say you never want to fault, I never want to fault a buyer for asking for what they want because they're doing for, asking for their business. 21:00 That doesn't mean you have to say yes to it. They can ask. So I, you know, you don't want to come back feeling like, you know, kind of attacking them for asking. 21:11 But you can say it. Thank you for asking. Here's what I can do. And so really teaching people how to take, you know, those wants from others and really turn it around because it's got to work for you. 21:26 We say it's kind of like dating, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. It has to be a two-way street. What do you also say to designers? 21:35 Because I've come across this of saying, I don't know if I want to do wholesale because I'm so creative. And I don't know if I could do anything consistently where usually you buy a certain amount of product that's consistent. 21:48 What are some workarounds just for like that really creative designer who just wants to make so many different one-offs or unique pieces? 21:57 Do you have any tips there? Yeah, you know, it's really been interesting. The last probably 15 years or so more stores are open to one of a kind. 22:08 There are one of a kind designers, Margaret Solo, is a jewelry designer. He does a lot of one of a kind. 22:16 Lena Skadgard is also a great designer who, her stuffs one of a kind. You see it more and more. And I think it's just getting with the right stores to do that. 22:27 I also, if someone is interested in wholesale, start locally. And if you don't have, I do have a designer's kind of in the middle of the, she calls it in the middle of the Wisconsin cornfields. 22:40 She's in the middle of nowhere. So I would say the next big city that you're near, that you can actually go and visit and check out the stores. 22:52 And and just start, you know, doing some, what I like to call market research. And with jewelry, it's kind of easy because you can wear your product. 23:01 And, you know, I, I love going in and talking to stores and talking to associates or whoever's working there at the time and asking them questions, you know, telling of you guys been in business, what, what seems to sell really well. 23:17 I really like your assortment, what shows do you go to if you go to any, you know, where, where there's your buyer shop. 23:24 There's so much you can learn by going in. I'm always amazed that people aren't doing more, what I like to call market research. 23:34 Honestly, Robin, that was one of the biggest takeaways from our conversation. I think that was only just last week. And why I wanted to have this recorded for the podcast. 23:44 The advice you gave when we were talking was call them, show up in real life. And similar to your ethos story of doing more of like that old school and then new school, I think you really brought that in beautifully in your new business now because you're teaching people showing up, build that relationship 24:07 locally, call them, see who the buyer is, things that I even know for myself can feel overwhelming because we're so used to doing everything online and not needing to engage one-on-one. 24:22 So I think that's a really great takeaway of just doing what you can or I should ask you, what are some things that people could do to kind of take away some of that year because I'm sure even just hearing that like, oh my gosh, I have to write an email, I have to call someone, I have to go to a store 24:37 , I don't know how to do that. Like what are some things you would also tell someone when already there anxiety or like the idea of that feels so overwhelming? 24:47 You know, it's such a good question. I always like to think what is that icebreaker that brings people together? So let's say if someone's a mom and they meet someone else who's a mom, there's an icebreaker, right? 25:02 Because they're both moms. If you meet somebody and for me like yoga was a big part of my life or is a big part of my life, if I meet somebody who does yoga, I'm like, oh, or horses is another thing for me. 25:17 So they're buying that icebreaker. So do research ideally. Now that can't happen every time. So if you're just walking around into stores but if you can do research on the store, look at their website, look at their social media, you know, go on LinkedIn and see if you can find some information about 25:36 the buyer. I had a designer who was meeting the buyer from Sacks Fifth Avenue and she was doing her research and found out that they both went to the same college different years and they didn't know each other. 25:49 But she could go relaxed because there was something in common. And so really finding that common thread or, you know, coming in and saying, oh my gosh, I read the article that was written in your local paper about what you did or that you're 25th anniversary or whatever it is, it's an icebreaker. 26:13 And it helps really bring people into a more conversation and it eases everything. I also think be prepared. People call it a pitch, be ready with your pitch. 26:28 I call it an invite because really what I always try to do is, you know, you don't want to talk to somebody and what I mean by that is, you know, when you're meeting somebody and they immediately go into, well, I do this and I do that and, and yeah, you've got because you're like, okay, this person 26:50 has ego and I don't really, they're not asking me any questions about me. So I like to pull people in. 26:59 So for example, I do have a side hustle and you don't know about, but I sell men's clothing. I sell a customer. 27:07 A cool thing line that it's just, I've done it for years. It just makes sense to me. But when I meet a man and he asked me what I do, I say, I save a gentleman time and money. 27:22 Mm. So I'm pulling them in because if they're interested, they're going to ask me, what does that mean? How do you do that? 27:32 And if somebody asked me about just if I knew it's a jewelry designer, if I know they're interested or potentially could be interested in working with on my consulting and mentoring, I do the same thing for designers. 27:47 I save a designer or time and money. And because it's true. And it pulls people in. How do you do that? 28:02 So I love that Robin. I love that. And I think that also ties in beautifully of knowing your story because then you can understand the threads of like how you could pull someone in and like how you can connect the dots with them. 28:19 So that's a really great point to of the importance of knowing your side of the street. So when you do show up, you feel confident saying those things and inviting people in because you know where you're taking them. 28:30 And absolutely. And I cannot recommend enough for people in no matter what business you're in is to go out there and network. 28:40 Yes. And you want to build it quickly in person is the best way to do that. Hands down building your network of who knows you is I mean in fact, when we we met just last week, I automatically have like I've got two designers who could really benefit from working with you because now I know you I know 29:05 and I know that personality wise, I think you could you know. So I do the same thing with stores. I'll call it buyers and I'm like, you know what, I would love for you to take a look at this line and if it's something you like, I'll introduce you. 29:21 I love that. And thank you too. I really appreciate that. And I always really truly made my day when I saw that email. 29:30 So thank you. And it's something that I think because of the times that we were in and I think everyone was going through something and we're kind of coming back out of it. 29:41 I know even for myself, I was really hesitant making new connections because I'm like, I need to get myself really grounded again. 29:48 And like, I need to know my side of the street. But I feel like now is a good time to re re-chow and being like, hey, this is what I'm doing. 29:56 And this is who I am. And just knowing that we all probably feel a little awkward coming out of what we're coming out of. 30:03 And that's okay and still do it. Even if you do feel a little awkward, it will eventually build momentum and you'll feel more confident in doing that and just reaching out and making those one-on-one connections. 30:15 Absolutely. And that moment, that word momentum is so true. I mean, I always feel like when I have a conversation with somebody and then all of a sudden more people show up. 30:31 So after you and I had a conversation last week, I had two people reach out to me that I was like, oh yeah, I met you a long time ago. 30:40 We should reconnect. And then somebody else had referred a person to me just as a good connection to have for one another. 30:49 And so you just listen to those things and be open to those things, open to possibilities. And I think words, I mean, I feel very strongly about the words we choose and use. 31:05 And just an example is I have a designer who called me and she's like, oh my gosh, I'm so inundated. 31:13 I have so many orders and she doesn't have any help making right now. So she's making everything herself. And she's just overwhelmed. 31:22 And I said, well, here's a couple things. One, push her lead timeout, right? Two, the word overwhelmed makes me anxious just saying it. 31:34 So let's look at a different word to use. And I used to say when there's too much business, it's a luxury problem. 31:43 But it really is a luxury opportunity. So really changing words and knowing that, okay, if it's not bring surgery, we're all going to be okay. 31:56 And better upfront to let people know the lead time is a little bit longer now. We're working as hard as possible to get your order out, have those conversations up front since then it keeps you from having to flip on the back end of things, scrambling to try to get things out and then making mistakes 32:21 or making it, having to make all these calls at the end of stuff. I mean, it just, it makes it. 32:30 I love that. And really practical, tangible, you could implement that advice. So thank you Robin. One last question for part, we'll call it part one of this series. 32:44 I love it. What do you see as the future of wholesale or the future of your business and your brand and the future that you see with emerging brands? 32:57 I I, you know, the future I see is just again, being being open to possibilities. I've had rate conversations with some younger buyers and younger. 33:11 In fact, I had one with a gallery owner, his, his parents own the gallery and has now he and his sister are taking it over after his parents had successfully for 25 years and now they're entering in this new kind of generation and how they're looking at things. 33:29 He's like, you know, people in their 30s are now ready to buy art and to buy fine jewelry and to buy homes and we're here for them. 33:40 So really connecting with that younger generation because also this, the generation that's coming up care about the environment, they care about who's making the product, how it's made, communicating that and not being afraid of that. 34:00 Social media is not going anywhere, so use it, but don't let it be a substitute from getting out there and networking. 34:09 As I said, the in-person is so important and people are also always here. Oh my gosh, retail's going away. Retail's not going away. 34:21 And stores, everyone hit, especially after the last few years, people are wanting to get out. They're wanting to have social interaction at stores and it's really exciting and actually more stores were open last year and stores closed last year, but more stores open than closed. 34:41 So that's really interesting. And thank you for saying that. All of that, I want to print out and out to people who are starting businesses because that's such a great reminder of the future. 34:55 And especially when again, we're going through some wonky economic times, similarly to what you were talking about 2008, 2009, people need to hear that. 35:07 Like, yes, retail isn't going anywhere. The thing you're doing is actually the future of what people are looking for and leveraging the modern tools, but also staying true to real 101 relationship building. 35:23 And I think putting all those pieces together is what makes you and your business so cool and so impactful. Well, thank you. 35:31 You're welcome. I really value. And as I said, it brings me so much joy to help people on their journey. 35:41 And I think it's also really, you know, one of the things when I work with people, I'm like, what do you want? 35:48 I think a lot of times people are comparing themselves to well, this person's doing this and they're a super success. 35:55 And you and I actually were talking about that. How right, don't know behind the scenes how long it's taken someone to get to where they are. 36:03 And so I always do have like, you know, a friend of mine calls herself a 21 year old overnight success because no one ever saw the 21 years that took her to build her business. 36:16 So just to be aware, there's always more to the story. And to know that to be successful, you don't need a huge customer base. 36:28 You need the right customers that buy from you again and again and again. I love that Robin. And we'll end on that note because that's such a good, I feel like already people can listen to this and be like, okay, I got this. 36:44 So where can people connect with you? Well, you can find me on Instagram at Red Boot Gal. You can also find me on my website at Red Boot Consulting.com. 37:00 And I also do a call twice a month called the Jolt of Joy. And it is free. And it's for anybody who just needs a little shot of community and joy in their life. 37:13 I love that. I started it when COVID hit and I just can't stop it because it's just great. It's people from all industries on the call. 37:31 And it is the first Friday of every month and the first excuse me, the third Wednesday. So the first Friday and third Wednesday of every month. 37:40 I love that Robin. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for sharing your expertise, your experience, and your story. 37:47 Everyone go connect with Robin and I'll see you on the next episode. Bye.
