Kiana Jones, Founder Happening Hands
Kiana created a beautiful community of artists which we will talk about today. We also dive deep into her backstory, how Etsy and Pinterest helped launch her career, and how small businesses market themselves while still enjoying their art.
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Kelly: Hi everyone. I have a new podcast episode and I have a special guest today. I haven't done an interview in a while and she was so cool and helped me troubleshoot my microphone. And we're ready. We're set, and this is going to be a great conversation. Also, this is one of those cool moments when social media in particular, Instagram brings people into your world, into your orbit and you're like, oh my gosh, they're so cool. I need to talk with them. I need to be friends with them. I need to see how we could work together. And Kiana Jones is one of those humans that I've met that I just resonated so much and I was, was just so taken. The work, the art, and the community that is being built. Um, I was able to teach a workshop for Kia's community and she'll talk more about that, and I'm just really intrigued and impressed and just all the things of what this human is doing for creatives.And so welcome, welcome, welcome to the podcast.
Kiana Jones: Thank you so much, Kelly. You have no idea how you're So welcome. How excited I am to be here today.
Kelly: Thank you. That makes me really happy. Yeah, and to kick things off, you know, it's one of those big questions, but I think it really does start a good conversation of what's your background? What's your story? You're an artist, you're a community. Leader, you also have a podcast. I know you're also a parent and Oh yeah. You got a lot going on, which is so amazing and cool, and you're very, you share very candidly on social, which I really appreciate. But give us a little bit of the backstory.
Kiana’s backstory into her creative field.
Kiana Jones: Yeah, absolutely. So I, uh, I grew up in Connecticut, which is super vanilla, um, , I mean, if you end up in, in Connecticut, you're just like, um, okay, . Um, but yeah, I grew up in Connecticut. My dad is Puerto Rican. My mom is. White. Uh, my dad was from New York, my mom from Boston, so there were a lot of fights there. Mm-hmm. . Um, but I was always very artistic growing up. And I think it was because my dad was very artistic. He is a, um, professional flutist. Cool. And so he was very creative. Um, my grandmother was super creative. She wanted to be a dancer in New York City. Um, and so she, you know, she grew up there and, um, she was also a painter. And so growing up I was super interested in art and I started drawing at a very young age, probably like, like, I mean, seriously drawing at like probably 10 years old. And I was doing like hyper realistic portraits of like celebrities. Birds and animals. And um, then I, um, you know, I just continued doing that. It was kind of my escape. Um, other than books. Books were also a huge escape for me. I loved my local library. That was like my safe haven. And so I even used to like bring my art there and like draw, I used to share with the librarians, which is so funny because I eventually became a librarian. Um, It was like one of my big goals. I was like, I'm going to become a librarian and I wanna do something with art. I'm not sure what that is or what that looks like, but that was like an idea in my head from a very early age. . And so I continued doing my art. I actually went to a private boarding school in Maine because I didn't wanna live at home. My life at home was really rocky. Um, I just, I didn't wanna spend any more time at home than I needed to. So I went to boarding school at the age of 13. and I was gone. I was like outta the house. And um, I was kind of like very independent at that point. You know, obviously we had a lot of chaperones and people around, like helping us figure out life. But um, I was on my own without my parents, and it was during that time that I took three years of oil painting and then a class on watercolor. Those classes and the mentors that I got like through those experiences changed my life. Like I just knew that I needed to be involved with art in some way, and that was just like, it was very important to me. I was like, this has to be part of my life somehow. And I remember coming back home, and this is, this is so sad, but my dad was like, you can't, I remember expressing to him like, I wanna be an artist. I wanna do something with art. Right? And he was like, you can't make money from art. And that idea like really stuck in my head for a long time, which is really sad because yeah, I absolutely believe to this day that you can make money with art. You can, um, you, you absolutely can make it your dream job if. To do that, um, you need to find people who will support that dream. However, um, it's totally possible and that little, um, you know, idea that that might pop in your head or that, like that negative thought that it can't happen like, Just throw that in the trash. Okay.
Kelly: Yes. Throw it in the trash.
Kiana Jones: Yes. Yeah. Um, but it was really hard to have an actual person like saying that to you, someone who you look up to and, and want to emulate. And, you know, even though my dad is, I would say a very difficult human to deal with, um, I did look up to him, you know, as an artist and so, I ended up going to the University of Connecticut and I really had to decide. Um, I actually got into the Savannah School of Art and Design, but um, that little bird in my head saying, you can't make money with art, really chased me down. And I didn't go, um, even though I was accepted and I ended up going to UConn, um, and I was like, okay, I'm gonna be an art librarian. I was like, I don't even know what that. But I'm gonna be it. That's what I'm gonna be. And so went to school for art history and I did take art classes. I loved taking printmaking. Um, that was probably my ultimate favorite. I took a couple years of printmaking and loved it. Um, but I focused on art history. And then when I left, um, I went to grad school for, for librarian Information Sciences. : And right out of that program I became, A faculty fine arts librarian at the age of 23 at a major university. Um, and I did that very for, very, yeah, I did that for almost five years. So I was teaching, um, I was very introverted. Um, , I just wanted to kind of focus on my art. I wanted to be around books, but I didn't really know what it meant to be a librarian, um, especially at a university. And it was a lot of teaching. I remember. Starting the job. And my boss was like, okay, you're gonna teach all the classes. And I was like, I don't know what that means. Um, and I think my first six months I taught 75 individual class sessions and it was, what were you teaching? Insanity. Um, it was a lot of introducing students to the library, introducing them to how to do research for their papers, um, really walking them through. Okay, let's say an artist comes in or an art student will come in and they have a project they have to do. It's like how do you research other artists to kind of inform your art practice? Um, and yeah, so it was a lot of that was going to classes to do these long 45 minute talks on like how to do research for your art, uh, project or your art history paper, whatever.
Kelly: Which also side note does sound really interesting.
Kiana Jones: It is super interesting and we, my favorite part of the job was we actually had, um, all of these rare materials. So we used to buy these books that were like thousands of dollars, like so amazing. Um, and I loved, that was like my favorite part. I oversaw collection of, um, books that are basically like high quality copies of Medieval ma. And Wow. They're like luxury. We used to buy them from Italy, from publishers all over the, um, the all over Europe basically. And um, that was like my favorite part of the job overseeing that collection. It was so fun. Um, but yeah, so it was an interesting job. Um, but eventually like, okay, let me give you some background here. During this time I had been selling on et. My art had been selling my art on Etsy. I started doing that in college because I actually had a mentor say, Hey, you should sell that. And like that was the first time that someone really believed in me and was like, you need to like sell this. It's really good. And like the first weekend I put my stuff up on Etsy. I immediately sold like an original painting and I was like, oh my
Kelly: gosh, wait. Yeah. What circle of Etsy was this?
Kiana Jones: Totally, this was like 2000.
Kelly: Wow. So these were like the early, early days of Etsy?
Kiana Jones: Yes. This is when people were super into like the Etsy forums. Mm-hmm. . Um, there were treasuries still. If you're listening to this and you're like, oh my gosh, I remember Etsy 10 years ago, 13 years ago, like. There were treasuries on the front page, people were super involved and very helpful. Um, and I started, so I started selling my art and I was doing that on the side as I was going through school. And I also started marketing my work on Pinterest. And I was like finding a lot of success with that. I actually still have a pin that sells my art that has been making me sales for 10 years. I'm not even joking. It's insane. Like, okay. Pinterest is amazing.
Kelly: You've talked to me about Pinterest and I wanted to follow up too. So we'll just say here about doing a workshop on Pinterest because I've heard you talk about Pinterest quite a bit, um, in your content. Wow. So you still have a pin on Pinterest? Mm-hmm. , and still gets you sales after 10 years. Yep.
Kiana Jones: Isn't that.
Kelly: Wow. Yeah. That's a really cool Pinterest story.
Kiana Jones: Totally. Yeah. So I, I started, like, I started putting my stuff up on Pinterest and realizing, oh, like this is helping me make sales, like I wanna help other people. That's just part of my personality. I don't know how to not help. Which is, maybe that's a bad thing, I don't know, but I'm trying to use it for good. Um, you are. Yeah. So I started helping other Etsy sellers with promoting their work on Pinterest, and I started really, um, Just getting into marketing and like, how does one market, one's business and how can I help the other people in my life who I really love? And like I love their work, I love their stuff. Like I want them to succeed too. And at the same time I was blogging, I was doing a lot. Um, and finally like once I had, had kind of gone through, Um, library school and I started my career. I was probably halfway through my career there, and I was like, I. Don't wanna do this the rest of my life. I just, I can't, I feel stifled. I feel like, I mean, all the people from, imagine like all these artsy people who just like to wear black. I say this as I'm wearing black right now, which is so funny. Um, but like they're just very uptight and like they think like, It, they think you have to be like some uppity person and like to be in the art world. And it was just, it was, it felt very stifling for me and I didn't wanna be a part of that anymore. Um, and so I started looking for ways and kind of thinking, what can I do that kind of marries everything that I love, but also still puts me in a position where I'm helping the people I. Mm. And so I started thinking about Happening Hands before I even knew the name of it. I was like, maybe it's a brick and mortar where we have workshops where the makers are able to sell their work out of the front area, and then we have workshops in the back where we teach them how to market their work. And so that eventually morphed into a marketplace. I was like, maybe it's a marketplace where we have the marketplace piece, but we're also teaching them how to market their work. This is better than Etsy. Etsy doesn't give those resources away to their makers. They're not necessarily supporting them in a way that helps them directly build a profitable business. Right. Um, they're just giving them that space, if that makes sense. Yes. And so I started writing a business plan. I started talking to a lot of makers.
Kelly: And what year was this?
Kiana Jones: Yeah, this was back in, um, 2019.
Kelly: Yeah, which feels like a long time ago, but it really wasn't.
Kiana Jones: Totally. It wasn't that long ago. It was the year my daughter was born, which is even crazier.
Kelly: Oh my gosh.. Like so you had a baby and Yes. Was doing this too. Yeah. Gotta love it.
Kiana Jones: Yes, um. I love it. I had a baby and like I, that was when I started, uh, really, actually it was, it was earlier in the year, maybe before I had her that I started really formulating the idea. And then when she was born, I was just like DMing makers, like all the time. Like, Hey, like what would you like out of a marketplace? What do you need? Like, I was asking all these questions, like as I was sitting there like breastfeeding my daughter for three months, . That was really what it was. I love it. Um, and there are makers out there who will tell you like, Gianna's DM game is strong like .
Kelly: I love it. I really do. That is so cool. So you had a baby. You're now giving birth also to this idea, doing outreach. I love some really good things that you've touched upon is following your intuition. Yes. Allowing yourself to try new things. Experimenting. Also, you are a really early adapter when it comes to Etsy and Pinterest and Vlo. Mm-hmm. . So it sounds like also you've been able to get these like intuitive hits of like, this is something worth exploring even before it becomes super popular. Like you're willing to put yourself out there first. Figure it out and then help others. Probably could benefit from it. How to figure it out then for their business and their brand.
Kiana Jones: Absolutely. Yeah. Which is really cool. Yeah, that's what I'm passionate about, is just helping other people. If I find something that's gonna work, I'd like, I wanna share that with others so that they can benefit. I just can't help myself like that.
Kelly: I think that's a great way to go. And I resonate with that very much on the same way. Like, I feel that everything I've learned it's now. Duty in a sense to like Yeah. Share it and give it back. Yeah. And give it back because I wish I had this stuff when I was starting same 14 years ago. Right. It's similar timeline here. Yeah. Of like. I wish I knew all this stuff or I had these conversations. I think when we both got started, it was very mysterious. Totally. Of like, how is this happening? How are people making money? Being a creative, yeah. And I did something very similar. I did an interview series for my first blog of just asking people. I would reach out to people. I'm like, how are you doing this? Yeah. Like it just felt so mysterious and there's still a part that's kind of mysterious about it, but. I was like, how did you figure this out? How are you making money? As a creative person? So that resonates with me so much. Okay. So 2019. Now we're in 2022. How did you start crafting what is now Happen in Hands?
Crafting Happen in Hands.
Kiana Jones: Yeah, absolutely. So I actually started looking on, I started Googling and like interesting love a good Google search, and I was just doing some searches and I'm like, I just need someone to like, hold me, hold my hand through, how do I start this business because it's not a handmade business. : It's totally different. I've never started anything like this, like of course, When I was working my full-time job at the university, I was getting a lot of experience with consulting and teaching. I did that for five years. So like, it came very naturally after a while, but, um, I didn't know how to, to turn that into a business. And so I started doing some searching and I actually found a course that, um, Nicole Schwartz from Sprout Law. Do you know who this is?
Kelly: I love Nicole. She's been on the podcast. She's also my trademark lawyer.
Kiana Jones: Me too. . My trademark actually just got like, I just got the announcement that it came through.
Kelly: Oh my God. Congratulations. Thank you. I send everyone from the incubator to Nicole.
Kiana Jones: Yeah. Nicole's amazing. They need a trademark.
Kelly: Oh my God. I love this part. I didn't even know this. I love it.
Kiana Jones: Yes. And she's gonna be on my podcast too. I actually just interviewed her yesterday, which is so crazy. Oh my gosh. Shout out to Nicole.
Kelly: Absolutely. She's amazing. Sprout law.com guys.
Kiana Jones: Yes. Um, yeah, and she had a course that was, It was kind of like taking me through like the branding pieces of like, how do you brand your business? How do you choose a name that is free and that's going to, you're gonna be able to trademark it later? And, which is so cool because then it's like, now it's 2022 and my business is trademarked because I went through that course two years ago or three years ago. She's a major. Oh, crazy. Um, so I went through that whole process and that was like in January. 2020. Is that when the pandemic hit? Yes.
Kelly: Yes. March, 2020. Yes. That's like shut down all the things.
Kiana Jones: So I went through her course in January and my baby was like, I don't know, four months old or something crazy. I went through her course, I picked a name, and then the pandemic hit. We were all sent home and two weeks later I launched happening. Wow. It was insanity and I was like, I had 15 makers. It was a marketplace at the time, and like I build it as the marketplace that does the marketing for its makers, which. Would've been awesome if I had had like a huge team behind me helping me. Um, but it was just me and my baby at home, you know? So I'm like trying to do my best. Um, but I launched it myself. Um, I found some software online that helped me build a marketplace just out of the box. It was really easy to use. Um, but eventually I realized that it had a lot of limit. I wanted to expand. I wanted to have a marketplace that really could, um, stand up to Etsy. Um, and eventually, um, that's not what happened, but, Um, you know, I got funding a year later for $50,000 to launch the marketplace on a better platform.
Kelly: And how did you land that? Just if you don't mind sharing a little bit. Cause I feel like there's still such a gap and this is something I'm so passionate about and, yeah. I wanna start a fund, uh, to help creative small businesses. This is like my big picture here. But like to get funding for a creative small business, there's just such a gap of like totally venture capital, angel investments. Yeah. You know? How did you figure that part out?
How did you fund creative small businesses?
Kiana Jones: Yeah, so one of my makers, actually, she was local and she was like, Hey, I know these people downtown in Pittsburgh, they have, um, what's called a creative business accelerator. Mm. And it's a nonprofit, but they also give small businesses funding, um, in the Pittsburgh area, but they're actually expanding hopefully nationally soon. Um, but they also provide. They provide, um, makers and creative business owners with access to markets. Um, it's called the CBA through Bridgeway Capital. And I didn't know anything about getting funding. I was doing as much research as I could, but like that, talking to a mentor from there was super helpful. And the crazy thing was, this maker put me in contact with them and they, they reached out to me and they were like, we wanna partner because you're, you are launching a market. We give our customers, um, access to markets. We wanna make sure that this is a success. And so through them, they kind of hooked me up with some people who could help me put a business plan together because I had no idea how to do that.I didn't know how to put a business plan together. I didn't know how to put my finance, my financial projections, any of that stuff. Like that was all like a foreign language to me. And so I took a year just like using their. And like trying to figure out, okay, like how can I turn this into a business plan? What can I do for the financial projections? And then I applied for the loan through them and I was able to secure that loan and that was so exciting. It was like, that's huge. I was celebrating, I'm like, this, usually this takes people forever. Like I don't know how I was able to do this. It was just, I was able to get that support. And so like if you can find even a small business association or someone who understands and has like experienced direct experience with getting funding for their business, who's willing to mentor you through that, that is so incredibly helpful. Um, so yeah, that was how that all happened. And then we launched the new website in November of last year. And by the time March came around of this year, we had about 40 selling on the site. But by that point, I had realized, and this is all, it's okay, right? It's okay to fail, but it's, it's also okay to pivot. Um, right. But I, I ended up pivoting, um, because I realized the makers what they need is not necessarily an extra place to. Mm. What they need is help with how do I actually turn this into a profitable business? Whether that's selling on your website, on another marketplace, um, wholesaling, whatever it is, how do I actually do this? That's what makers need help with. And people who have creative business owners who are trying to scale. I came to terms with the fact that, okay, this is what is resonating with people. This is what I need to shift to. And it happened really fast. And the reason why was because I ended up signing on with, um, some developers who were extremely unprofessional. I didn't realize this until like halfway through working with them. And so it just ended up being like a really bad fit. And so I, I reached out to them. I was like, Hey, I wanna talk about scaling back the marketplace. I'm thinking of taking happening hands in a different direction, and instead of having a conversation with me, they shut down my marketplace. And it was gone. It was gone. I had to pivot my business within 24 hours. It was crazy. . What?
Kelly: What? So they just shut down your whole website?
Kiana Jones: w Yep. It was gone completely. Yeah. Okay. It was just like ripping the bandaid off. It was crazy.
Kelly: Uh, wow. So what did you do after you freaked out and I'm sure had a good cry? What did you do next?
Kiana Jones: Yeah, so thankfully I already had some of the infrastructure in place for the membership to be a membership. So like Happening Hands was already a me. Like you paid for the membership and you got the marketplace and all these marketing resources and the monthly group coaching and all of that that we have now. Um, and so all of that was hosted elsewhere. And so all I needed to do was turn on a paywall and I had to have, uh, make a new landing page and that, and I had to tell everybody. That was the hardest part. The hardest part was actually just like having to reach out to the people who gave me money for the marketplace. Reaching out to all the makers and saying, our marketplace is gone. I'm really sorry. Like this is what happened. Just how it is. Like, and that was a very humbling place to be in. But the support and all of the replies that I got from people, um, you know, I even got on the phone with quite a few makers who just wanted to talk. And that was so nice, like being able to have those conversations with people and say, this is what's happening, but here's why it's good. And I was trying so hard at the time to just. Look towards the positive and tell myself this was gonna happen anyway. It was just Mm, I didn't want it to happen this fast. Right. And sometimes that happens in business. Yeah. You know, things just come up and then it's like all of a sudden, the thing that you wanted to do, it's not gonna happen. So, um, so yeah, that's kind of, that's kind of how the pivot happened. And now Happening Hands is a membership and we. Marketing resources for Makers. We have monthly group coaching. We've got courses on email marketing, um, guides on how to do wholesale, how to get funding for your business, all of this that we're talking about, right? Right. How to actually build a profitable business like I want Happening hands to feel like this supportive place that where no matter where you are in your business, you can come and find something for you to help you scale.
Moving the Marketing Needle forward.
Kelly: I love that. And question for you, cuz marketing is a big word and I feel like there's so many different ways of going about marketing. What do you feel that you really have been honing in on to help makers market their businesses? Absolutely. Like what, what do you think is really moving the needle? I'm also curious as a marketer myself of like, yeah, what have you seen as really moving the needle?
Kiana Jones: Totally. Um, so one thing that is super important is getting leads pouring into your business. People who are signing up for your email list, people who are actually taking action. And that means that you need to drive traffic and people who are actively looking for what you have to offer. Yes. So, For me, I've actually like gone back to Pinterest a lot and you know, we have a whole course on Pinterest marketing for makers where it's like…
Kelly: I was curious if that's where you were going back to.
Kiana Jones: Totally going back to that. But then it's like, you know, even if you drive that traffic to your site, people who are actively searching for what you have to offer, you also need to have something in place on the back. which is email marketing. Mm-hmm. , where you're able to hold onto those people and they're not people on social media. You know, your, your Facebook page or your Instagram could disappear in, in a day, right? Mm-hmm. , I mean, this actually happened, what, like a couple weeks ago, and like, people were actually losing their accounts out of nowhere.
Kelly: But if you, I think it was Halloween or like, yeah, it felt like the internet was melting that day. Totally. Yeah, it was Halloween. That was crazy.
Kiana Jones: That was crazy. I do know quite a few makers who completely lost their profiles and had to restart, which. It's so, it's devastating, especially if you have 30,000 followers and you have all these people who are really, really, like, engaged with your content, all of a sudden it's gone. Um, so being able to get people onto a list that you own, you have ownership over that, right? You can contact them anytime. Um, you can market to them. You can make an offer. Send your sales out, whatever it is that, and build that relationship with them. So important. Um, and so being able to kind of marry those two, like we need to get the people to your stuff and you need to be able to capture those leads somehow and make sure that you're cultivating. That relationship with them. You have these people you can sell to over and over again. Super, super important.
Kelly: I have another question for you cuz this comes up a lot with my product based, um, business owners. And something that working with makers, my background too, I was, I used to curate maker markets for about five years. So many people, and especially I think when this podcast is gonna be coming out, it's gonna be like in the holiday. Vibe, which we're already in totally. Most of the time they think marketing. Okay, I have to make a. No. And or . I have the same reaction. I'm like, no, no, no. It's their knee jerk reaction is discounting it. And marketing is social media. Yeah. So what have you done to help debunk those things? Because I had a feeling that was gonna be your answer. Like what are some things that you, you wanna help creatives, makers, like relook at their marketing.
How do you help creatives, makers, relook their marketing?
Kiana Jones: So I think it, I think a lot of it comes back to like how you're positioning your product and the value that you are ascribing to it. So if you want others to see the value in your product, you have to, first of all, like talk about it in a way that connects it to your ideal customer, right? Yes. Um, it's not just like posting on Instagram. I have a new pair of earrings up. It's like, okay, cool. Um, I don't care. . Yeah. Like, unless you have like thousands and thousands of followers, I feel like then you can kind of get away with that.
Kelly: But at first, like you really, but they would have to be super engaged even at that because the numbers don't even do it anymore now.
Kiana Jones: Not anymore. Yeah. I actually, this is really interesting. I had a conversation last year with a, a jewelry maker and she has 30,000 people following her on Instagram. and she only has about 300 people on her email list. And those are the people who buy from her. That's it. I'm not surprised. And those are the people who she built a relationship with. And when she posts, it's like she makes sure to also tell people, like my email list is where you're going to get the update first of like when products launch, she makes it feel exclusive and that is, that gives more value. To your products and what you're putting out, that exclusivity. Yes. And then also with that is like you don't have to do a discount. You could do, like for instance, I'm working with an artist right now doing marketing strategy for her, and she is putting out a new painting collection and she's like, I'm like, okay, what can I do? Can I discount these? And I'm like, no. Like don't discount them. Offer something for free. That's small. Gives it an even more like kind of special touch to it, where it's like the packaging is beautiful. You're giving this beautiful gift along with it, whoever buys it. And so then there's also this like, um, this feeling of, oh, I need to buy this by a certain time so that I can get this extra free gift and. It just make, it elevates the experience. You're
Kelly: You're bringing value versus discounting your brand. Totally.
Kiana Jones: Yes. Yes.
Kelly: I’'m so glad that you're saying this. I had a feeling that was gonna be your answer too, because I feel like for, especially for product based businesses that's the biggest conversation I have with people of like, it's not about the discount, it's about how we could story tell this, how can we engage with people's lifestyles and how they use your products. How. Make this cool and relevant to them. Like how can we show your process and what you do differently? Yeah. Leaning into that versus it's not gonna be a 15% off that does it.
Kiana Jones: Yeah, totally.
Kelly: There's a time and a place, I think if there's like a presale or something like strategic, I'm all for it and I've done this in my business too, have. However, that's not sustainable. You wanna really keep that in your back pocket for very, very special. Yeah, because then you're eroding at your brand equity, and then it's gonna be really much more of a harder uphill battle of making profit because you have to price properly. But if you keep counting your stuff, you're just eating away and marketing isn't even the solution at that point. Totally. Cause you're not even making money in general. So I'm, I, I love what you're doing because this is such valuable information, especially, especially for the product base especially. Especially when it's handmade. Yes. And from a maker because it's so emotional. It's literally a piece of your soul. So before I let you go, I wanted to also touch upon the fact that you are also a maker. Yeah. You're also an artist. How is that experience, making sure you're having time for your own art and your own brand while helping others. how are you doing that?
How are you having time for your own art and brand while helping others?
Kiana Jones: Yeah, so that's a really good question and I wanna be totally honest. It is really hard. Yeah. Because Happening Hands has become, My life. Um, and I do have quite a few like marketing clients at this point. I also do business strategy coaching with makers. Um, and we talk a lot about your marketing, um, and kind of what you need to be doing next in your business to market your business. : Um, but it is hard to focus on both. Um, my art business is, um, rota, so it's R K I T. Um, and you can find me on Instagram as rota Art. And, um, yeah, it's, it's been difficult. I've also switched, uh, in the past five years I have switched from, um, completely like hyper realistic to completely abstract. And so I've actually pivoted in my art business as well, and I'm focusing more on, um, this year specifically on getting my art onto products that can be reproduced and getting those into shops and also selling them wholesale and getting them into magazines. And so I feel like I've had to find ways to say, okay, what kind of goal is achievable with my business right now? In view of the fact that I have this other business that is taking up the most of my focus, including a three year old, who comes home and is just wild and crazy and, and destroys my whole house. She's, she's so much fun, but she's so crazy. Yeah. Um, yeah, there's currently like stickers. All over everything right now. She's going through her major sticker phase right now. I love it. Um, but yeah, she, yeah, she's, she's fun. But yeah, it, it really is just finding a balance of like, okay, like I have this thing going on. What goals are achievable here and what can I do in this business that's going to make it easier for myself? So getting my work into the press, I understand how to do that. And so I've been doing, um, PR campaigns for myself. Um, when I have the time, like I'll just block out time and say right now, like this day I'm gonna sit down and I'm going to send 10 pitches today. And I'll just do that, um, every couple of months and. I do what I have time for to try and reach my goals. Um, but yeah, like I said, it is hard and a lot of times, you know, art for me is therapy. It really is like when I'm stressed out in the business, um, whether it's, I mean either business, like I have to sit down and paint and it really helps ground me and it helps me realize like, this is why I'm doing what I'm doing. there are makers out there like me, artists out there like me, who just wanna focus on making right and they, the other stuff is so hard. I wanna make that easier for them and easier for myself so that at the end of the day I can still sit down and say, I have this time to really focus and ground myself in this work that I absolutely love doing.
Kelly: I resonate with that so much and I love that so, so much . So question for you because again, we're, I can't believe January is pretty much around the corner. No, it's crazy and I feel like so many of us in the creative space, and maybe this is just in general too, I feel like this year has been really trying. It's been a lot of pivots. It's been a lot. Okay. Can we really do this? A lot of like just putting your head down and doing. Yeah. Um, and so, and I feel like literally the sun started to come out when I'm saying this, I really seriously feel like there's been a general wave of like, we're starting to see the other side of it. We're like, okay, we could see the light at the end of the tunnel, like. This is kind of where we're going with it. Okay. We are now adjusting to this new norm of how people shop and different behaviors. Like a lot changed this past year. Yeah. Um, and calibrating to what's the new norm. Mm-hmm. , what do you see for 2023, like for your own art, for, um, the community? For just creative small businesses, makers in general. What, where, where are you at? Like, where, what is exciting to you? What do you feel like you're still gonna need to shift? Or where do you wanna focus? I would love to hear that.
Where are you going to focus next?
Kiana Jones: Yeah. Um, I think for me, what I wanna focus more of my time on is working with, um, smaller groups of makers who are ready. To bring their business and their marketing specifically to the next level. Mm-hmm. where maybe they haven't been consistent, maybe, you know, they've found a couple things that work, but they haven't stuck to them for some reason. Yes. Um, or they're really struggling with accountability. Um, I've talked to a lot of makers this year who are like, you know, I, I started doing this marketing plan. And then I just kind of fell off the bandwagon and I haven't been able to stick to anything and people are just crying for accountability out there. . So I'm actually planning on launching some sort of program. I'm not sure yet exactly what this looks like, but kind of marrying the business strategy coaching that I offer makers, but turning it into a longer term program where you get that accountability once a week. Um, and also implementation help where it's like. Not only are we giving you a plan for your marketing and what you're doing next in your business to reach your goals over the course of, let's say three months or six months, but you need help with your website. Like we have someone on team who's gonna help you with that. Um, so I love that. I, I want to make it more supportive where we're not just providing the resources, we're also providing this one-on-one help that is, Needed so that you don't feel alone in your.
Kelly: I love that so much and you're doing an awesome job. And I, I, I know I said it in the beginning, but I taught a workshop for your community. Yeah. And I met the coolest people and some of them are now in my incubator too. I love that. And more focusing on creative direction. Mm-hmm. , right. And really refining their brand and their products so that they can be in a much better position for marketing. Yeah. And I just wanna thank you for creating that space and the people that. Serving and also bringing together are just really great people. And I'm so happy that I've been able to connect with, um, your community too, cuz they're just awesome humans and I appreciate you so much for connecting me with them. And I think that's kind of what you're doing too, like mm-hmm. bringing other people in. Um, yes. Um, Kelly of Hidden Creative. she was my first guest on this podcast, so Cool. Um, yeah. And so it's just so cool how you're bringing in so many people, um, and, and cultivating this community. And I just thank you for bringing me into your community too, because, um, I've just met some really amazing people and I appreciate it.
Kiana Jones: That's awesome to hear and I really appreciate that too. And I just wanna be clear to everyone listening, I don't know everything and neither do you and that's, oh yeah, okay. That's okay. And like finding those people, curating them, bringing them together so that we can share this expertise and not feeling bad about the fact that we don't know everything. You know, I actually went through quite a phase where I was like, I need to learn how to do all the things so I can help people with everyth. No, like that's not sustain.
Kelly: I went to therapy for that. Not, I'm not kidding
Kiana Jones: I probably should too.
Kelly: That was a big part of me going to therapy in 2020. I had always put so much pressure on myself that I had to do all the things. Yeah. And I had to learn that lesson too. And why I'm saying like, I really appreciate what you do is because, I used to put pressure on myself to figure out all the pieces. Yeah. And now that I let that go, I'm like, I'm focusing on creative direction. That's my wheelhouse. That's what I do. That's my, that's my jam. I do it in my own little quirky way, which is cool. Mm-hmm. . Um, and really just going down that path. Right? Yeah. And then I can meet people like yourself who are doing really cool things like Kelly with packaging and mm-hmm. Nicole of Sprout Law. Yeah, there's other people and the more that we allow ourselves to let go of like needing to do it all by ourselves. I think for many of us, we had that pressure because then we could prove that we're really good in business. Like look at what I figured out. And it's like you could still be really good in business. And if you look at big businesses or even, yeah, no one's doing it all by themselves. They all have experts coming in and I don't know why small business owners. Told ourselves this story that we have to do it all by ourselves. It's just not sustainable. It's not scalable, it's not practical. Mm-hmm. . And it makes you want to burn it all down to the ground because it's just not a good way of going about it. It's just really, really challenging. So I appreciate you saying that, and I feel the same way, and now I'm like, this is what I need. But if you're, if you wanna do X, Y, and Z, now I have really great people to be like here. That's what they do. That's what they specialize in. Yeah. And that's such a great feeling. Yeah. It's very liberating.
Kiana Jones: Absolutely. It really is. And it also makes you so appreciative of other people. You're like, oh, thank God.Like you have this extra. Then you're able to come into my community and give people this expertise. Like might you get some clients out of it? Absolutely. And that's great because I can't help them with that. Like that makes me so happy that you're able to give them the expertise and then help them. Um, so if there are service providers listening or people who help, Small businesses. You know, I actually have a section inside of the Happening Hands membership portal where we highlight, um, people like Kelly, people like, um, uh, other Kelly who does packaging design. So many. Kelly, Kelly Campbell. Yeah, Kelly Campbell. Uh, we also have someone in there who does Pinterest marketing as well, cuz I can't help everybody. Um, and then we have someone who does PR marketing. Christina Elle, who's amazing. She worked for me as my PR strategist for, um, Three months earlier this year, and it was a phenomenal experience. Um, so we have some different people in there who we highlight and like they get invited to our, our group coaching once a month and they're able to provide that expertise to people and, and come and do workshops. And it's a great opportunity to not only, um, You know, get, get your business in front of people, but also truly show up to help others. Um, so if that's something that interests you, feel free to reach out to me. .
Kelly: Yeah, I think it's a great way, and that is what I would put under the umbrella of partnerships to market your business. And I think especially for service-based, creative, small businesses. Mm-hmm. , that's a really, really, really smart way to. That you could also then leverage in other ways, but partnerships for me, that has probably been one of the biggest things marketing wise I've done this year. Wow. And it's been one of the best ways of getting my business out there, because yes, I help people with creative direction, but I also have to help my own business with. Getting the name out there and like getting myself in front of people. And partnerships is just a really smart way of doing that, especially for cre uh, service based. So, yes. I love how you also have that integration of like, it's for product based primarily, but you bring in service providers to help with those product based businesses. Yes. And I think that's a really cool, unique thing that you're doing. And again, I just, I, I love what you're doing. I admire. Great people that I've been connecting with from it. And, um, I just really appreciate you following through and experimenting and trying and sharing and sharing your story here. It was a really good episode. I know that people are gonna get lots of knowledge, lots of insights, lots of inspiration, um, and I just appreciate you sharing it with me. Thanks so much, Kelly. You're so welcome. So where can people follow you? What's the next step from here?
Kiana Jones: Yeah, so happening hands if you feel like joining, um, which you definitely should. Um, if you're a maker, um, it's happening hands.com and we just actually switched over to a yearly only membership. So, um, I want to find, you know, makers who are really committed to. Growing their businesses and putting in that work. Right. Um, so happening hands.com. We also have a podcast, the Handmade CEO podcast. Kelly, you're there too. Yes. So if you wanna go listen to another episode with us, um, that's on there. Um, and you can follow us on Instagram. Follow me on Instagram at @whatishappening.
Kelly: And how can people support your art shop? Your art?
Kiana Jones: Oh yeah. So it's at Rota Art on Instagram. Or you can go to shop dot rota art.com.
Kelly: Awesome. I'll make sure to put all of that in the show notes so that it's really easy to support and explore and check out all the things that you mentioned. Thank you again. Thank you everyone for listening. Go support, follow, do all the things, and just also know that it's a journey of getting to where you wanna go, but the more that you could surround yourself with people who get you, who can support you, who understand who to connect you with next. Yes. The world of difference. So yes, thank you again, and I'll see everyone on the next episode. Bye.
